Topics

Cine RT Ultrasonic Ranger/Tracker


Saul Oliveira
 

Hello AC´s of the world:

I know some of you have already tested the new Cine RT System. I´m used to CineTape and ArriTape and would be interested in knowing the accuracy of this new system compared to the other systems.

- In "regular" function mode (the Base sensor sending readings to Preston or WCU-4) how good it is compared to the other two systems?, I, i.e, have noticed that the Arritape tend to loose the "correct" subject compared to CineTape. How well does RT does this?

- Also interested in how useful you find the functionality of the Bug transmitters. 

- Also the Tape Mode, is it as useful on set as it looks?

- The X-OVER Mode, how well does it work?, how seamless does it change from Bugs reading to Base Readings?

And basically how easily you implemented the new system in your daily routine? 

Good Luck
Saul Oliveira
First AC 
Spain


bart van otterdijk
 

I’ve bought one and been using it for a month or two now.
I think I’m in love…

After working with my cinetape for about 10 years this is really a whole new ball game!

The fact that it’s all wireless and compact/battery powered is great. The RF hasn’t shown a single glitch on me even on long distances from camera or inside a car or behind a corner.

Serial data is very fast with my cmotion system and ok with LCube/Arri although I didn’t test that so much.

Bug transmitters are maybe less useful as one might think in my experience. Then again the film I’m working on now is mostly wider lenses nearby. It works very well on talent coming towards camera from a distance though. Bugs hidden in the front pocket or when possible in the short pocket.
Takes some experimenting on what fabrics work and do try and be good friends with costume dept when placing the bugs.
Most actors get pretty excited when you explain to them this magical device it there to keep THEM in focus ;-)
I even had actors coming up to me asking if it wouldn’t be better for them to wear a bug on certain shots.. And yes, sometimes I just ‘bug’ them even though I know I won’t use it just to get them acquainted with the concept.
Here in Belgium actors are quite relaxed with crew but on bigger international jobs that might be a more sensitive matter.

XO mode works great. This is seamless indeed. It’s just a new helpful tool but no miracle solution allowing you to sit back, nip a coffee while holding the focus tracking button ;-)

Tape mode is great for gathering marks with the handunit.

Implementing in the daily routine is done. Last week I had one day on a techno crane where I gave the CineRT to my B-cam colleague and I was using my good old cinetape. I regretted that decision/favour from the first shot ;-)

But the features I like most about the cineRT are the fact you can instantly change parameters wirelessly during the shot, the ability to switch from normal to wide to x-wide and lockouts and limits changeable during a shot.
This also helps loads with getting the ‘correct’ readings. On an over shoulder for example I’ll lock out the readings of the talent in OS so I only ‘see’ the main talent. And yes, I’ll correct that during the shot.

Switching sources on the fly is also possible. I had a shot on a gimbal where I had 3 actors ‘bugged’ and my 2nd would switch to the next bug once the first one was under 2,5m (and useless).
I would get the reading of the next bug even before the talent wearing it was in shot!! That’s just great. That was in 2x view with the ranger on source one and the bugs on two.

Yes, it’s expensive but in my humble opinion worth every penny.

Also -specially in the beginning- be wary of not getting lost in too much information. Having all those distances flickering in front of you might be distracting.

Support is great too. They made a custom serial cable for my cvolution system.

No I’m not affiliated to cineRT, just a happy customer.


Bart Van Otterdijk
DOP/Operator/Focus puller 
Belgium



On 15 Apr 2019, at 11:20, Saul Oliveira <oliveira_saul@...> wrote:

Hello AC´s of the world:

I know some of you have already tested the new Cine RT System. I´m used to CineTape and ArriTape and would be interested in knowing the accuracy of this new system compared to the other systems.

- In "regular" function mode (the Base sensor sending readings to Preston or WCU-4) how good it is compared to the other two systems?, I, i.e, have noticed that the Arritape tend to loose the "correct" subject compared to CineTape. How well does RT does this?

- Also interested in how useful you find the functionality of the Bug transmitters. 

- Also the Tape Mode, is it as useful on set as it looks?

- The X-OVER Mode, how well does it work?, how seamless does it change from Bugs reading to Base Readings?

And basically how easily you implemented the new system in your daily routine? 

Good Luck
Saul Oliveira
First AC 
Spain


Saul Oliveira
 

Nice overview Bart thanks so much. 

On question more:

What about batteries on the different elements?, it looks like it could be kind of tricky for the second AC´s to keep everything charged for the day. 


Andrew Jerram
 

I’d agree o with Bart on all counts, i’ve been using the Cine RT System for over a year now and the system is amazing.  Battery life on the bugs is really good, charges via usb port and the hand unit via 2pin lemo. i have a cable from my focus monitor (small HD 703) or AB/vlock plate at the ready to plug in all the time. It wont last all day so you will need to charge as you go. the bugs charge in about 20mins and run for a couple of hours if active, but go to sleep if not in use. If your batteries have a usb port then easy to charge.

I agree that the focus bugs are used less that i was expecting too.  ( i find  hiding a bug on cars, motor bikes etc works really well, you can offset the  plane of focus on each bug. Ie front of car to driver offset 6’ for  drive ups etc from upto 100’ away.)  Bugs don’t work so well under 10’ due to parallax which is why they have the seamless cross over (XO) that you can adjust to switch between bug and horns.)

The lockout range setup works so well. I too am constantly adjusting during takes and using the adjustable film plane to make minor adjustments to make the system work for the shot.  Ive done a few long range shots with the bugs which work well however they can give false readings if the scene involves many extras  etc... i have used on stand ins for rehearsals and getting marks. The Tape Mode is brilliant and i find i don’t pull my tape measure out all that much  as i can quickly just grab my points with that hand unit.

The system is perfect for gimbal and steadycam too as its just the horns on the camera, light and no additional control box to find  ever decreasing realestate to mount.

I  wouldn’t say it was expensive with all the features you get.   Laser version to be added soon along with pan/tilt control.

Extremely happy customer.


Andrew Jerram
1st Assistant Camera
SOUTHERN AURORA FILMS
M: +61 (0)418 506 442
E: mail@...
 


From: cml-ac@... on behalf of Saul Oliveira via Cml.News <oliveira_saul=hotmail.com@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 12:41 am
To: cml-ac@...
Subject: Re: [cml-ac] Cine RT Ultrasonic Ranger/Tracker
 
Nice overview Bart thanks so much. 

On question more:

What about batteries on the different elements?, it looks like it could be kind of tricky for the second AC´s to keep everything charged for the day. 


Saul Oliveira
 

Thanks for your detailed reviews which are very very helpful.

One thing to clear, mostly for those who have being working with CineTape before:

I used Arritape and Cinetape and I prefer Cinetape because with the Arri one (although I also like the way it works) I feel a tendency, in some situations, to get readings of things (obstacles, walls, over the shoulder actors, etc...) that I don´t feel I have with Cinetape, you know what I mean?. It´s just that sometimes you feel like "It should´t be reading this now". 

I´m interested in knowing your opinion on how the Cine RT performance with just the Base (what we could call, traditional Cinetape mode, without the bugs and so on) just the pure reading of the Base. Do you fell it accurate, right, trusty, steady?, How is it compared with old school Cinetape performance in this aspect?

Best Regards

Saul Oliveira
First AC
Spain


Andrew Jerram
 

It’s better on so many levels! The zones and FOV options alone make it Better hands down to either the Cinetape or the Arri version.

Andrew Jerram
1st Assistant Camera
M: 0418 506442
SOUTHERN AURORA FILMS
Melbourne, VIC Australia
mail@...
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0994912/
 


From: cml-ac@... on behalf of Saul Oliveira via Cml.News <oliveira_saul=hotmail.com@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 6:37 pm
To: cml-ac@...
Subject: Re: [cml-ac] Cine RT Ultrasonic Ranger/Tracker
 
Thanks for your detailed reviews which are very very helpful.

One thing to clear, mostly for those who have being working with CineTape before:

I used Arritape and Cinetape and I prefer Cinetape because with the Arri one (although I also like the way it works) I feel a tendency, in some situations, to get readings of things (obstacles, walls, over the shoulder actors, etc...) that I don´t feel I have with Cinetape, you know what I mean?. It´s just that sometimes you feel like "It should´t be reading this now". 

I´m interested in knowing your opinion on how the Cine RT performance with just the Base (what we could call, traditional Cinetape mode, without the bugs and so on) just the pure reading of the Base. Do you fell it accurate, right, trusty, steady?, How is it compared with old school Cinetape performance in this aspect?

Best Regards

Saul Oliveira
First AC
Spain


Saul Oliveira
 

Do the FOV options provide better adjustment than the Extension Tubes of the Cinetape?


Andrew Jerram
 

WFOV and XW- FOV  for close range shots(super important worth 8k format cameras and 70mm lenses.

The range Lockouts act like ext tubes but much more Accurate with the ability to ignore close range subjects

Andrew Jerram
1st Assistant Camera
M: 0418 506442
SOUTHERN AURORA FILMS
Melbourne, VIC Australia
mail@...
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0994912/
 


From: cml-ac@... on behalf of Saul Oliveira via Cml.News <oliveira_saul=hotmail.com@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 8:10 pm
To: cml-ac@...
Subject: Re: [cml-ac] Cine RT Ultrasonic Ranger/Tracker
 
Do the FOV options provide better adjustment than the Extension Tubes of the Cinetape?


Saul Oliveira
 

- WFOV and XW- FOV  for close range shots(super important worth 8k format cameras and 70mm lenses.

But you have no tool to specifically narrow the signal, do you?, how do you by pass an over the shoulder actor?

- About the Range Lockouts. Is not the same blocking from 9’ to 12’ than narrow the field itself, is it?. Can the first allow for a proper reading of something at 14’ if an object is blocking the signal at 10’?. It is the same issue I had with cinetape, if I limit the range to not reading things closer than 9’ and the signal hits something at 6’ it won’t treat it as if it was invisible and get farther than that, will it?. While narrowing the field could bypass a close and undesirable object. 

What at you think about these thoughts?

Saul Oliveira 
First AC
Spain 


Andy Hoehn
 

“Do you fell it accurate, right, trusty, steady?, How is it compared with old school Cinetape performance in this aspect?“

i trust my Cine RT more than my CineTape. Plus it has many more features and adjustments.  For instance, the minimum distance on the CineTape is a random number (7-14) that correlates to a distance. On the Cine RT you can dial in an exact minimum. You can also “block out” an area to avoid readings off of a post, for example. 

Andy Hoehn
First AC
Atlanta, GA
USA


Andrew Jerram
 

Actually it does treat items that are outside the range as “invisible” (limitation would be total coverage of fov) I’ve done shots with an actor at 6’ at a desk and we we tracking around the desk with lights computers screens and various bits between camera and  actor and used the range lockout to zone in past those items. ( set range to 5’6”-7”)  and worked perfectly.

Cinetape ext tubes will reduce the angle of view and therefore be more accurate. However your still only going to get the first “refeflection” from the  horns.  An example with  an over shoulder  shots with cine RT can  ignore the foreground actor  (range lockout) and just see the actor your shooting.  The cine RT also has a better range than the cinetape , out to 40’ and out to 100’ with the focus bugs.

Andrew Jerram
1st Assistant Camera
SOUTHERN AURORA FILMS
M: +61 (0)418 506 442
E: mail@...
 


From: cml-ac@... on behalf of Saul Oliveira via Cml.News <oliveira_saul=hotmail.com@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 10:21 pm
To: cml-ac@...
Subject: Re: [cml-ac] Cine RT Ultrasonic Ranger/Tracker
 
- WFOV and XW- FOV  for close range shots(super important worth 8k format cameras and 70mm lenses.

But you have no tool to specifically narrow the signal, do you?, how do you by pass an over the shoulder actor?

- About the Range Lockouts. Is not the same blocking from 9’ to 12’ than narrow the field itself, is it?. Can the first allow for a proper reading of something at 14’ if an object is blocking the signal at 10’?. It is the same issue I had with cinetape, if I limit the range to not reading things closer than 9’ and the signal hits something at 6’ it won’t treat it as if it was invisible and get farther than that, will it?. While narrowing the field could bypass a close and undesirable object. 

What at you think about these thoughts?

Saul Oliveira 
First AC
Spain