Topics

Camera issue, possible causes?

Jay Young
 

I've got a problem with my CP-16r, bow-tie shutter.   The film transport sounds good and solid. There are no noises out of the ordinary, but there is definitely a problem as the footage shows.  Its almost like the film advance and shutter are out of sync, or the film was one perf out.  Sometimes this happens, but its easy to correct.

I've attached an example picture of the issue.

This effect if vertical blurring happens most of the time during start/stop operation, however in my current issue, it fluctuates and continues throughout the shot.  This is what all of the footage looks like.  As far as I can think, there has not been anything physically happen to the camera to cause a motor sync issue.

I may have to send it off, but if I can fix the problem here, all the better. 


Thoughts?




Thanks!



-- 
Jay Young - Cinematographer
606-312-2628
YoungPictures.org
Kentucky, USA

Steve Gal
 

What lens are you using? Are you shooting wide open? 

Can you load the camera with film and check if the film stays
steady when the shutter is open? Is it a bowtie or half moon shutter?

Regards,
Steve Gal
Du-All Camera
(212) 643-1042
www.duallcamera.com 

Jay Young
 

This particular test was done wide open, on the Angenieux 10-150 zoom, CP-mount lens.

The film seems to stay steady, and I've never had a problem out of the camera previously.  Its a bowtie shutter.

Today I did try to check visually as best I could the pull down position with the shutter opening sequence, and it seemed to not be lined up. I tried to adjust the shutter position as best I could here.



Jay


What lens are you using? Are you shooting wide open? 

Can you load the camera with film and check if the film stays
steady when the shutter is open? Is it a bowtie or half moon shutter?


-- 
Jay Young
606-312-2628
Cinematographer

Steve Gal
 

Camera could possibly be out of timing.  Load the camera, open the shutter, draw on the film (scribble from edge to edge) then inch the camera in proper direction and look closely at the film. When the film is exposed you should not see any part of the film moving. Look top, bottom, left, right. Everywhere. 

Regards,
Steve Gal
Du-All Camera
Www.duallcamera.com



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

Rick Gerard
 

The belt that drives the shutter gets old and it’s easy for the shutter to get out of sync. Buy a new belt and have the shutter re-timed. 

On May 25, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Jay Young <jay@...> wrote:

I've got a problem with my CP-16r, bow-tie shutter.   The film transport sounds good and solid. There are no noises out of the ordinary, but there is definitely a problem as the footage shows.  Its almost like the film advance and shutter are out of sync, or the film was one perf out.  Sometimes this happens, but its easy to correct.

I've attached an example picture of the issue.

<kkjdjbcmgabkdkom.dib>

This effect if vertical blurring happens most of the time during start/stop operation, however in my current issue, it fluctuates and continues throughout the shot.  This is what all of the footage looks like.  As far as I can think, there has not been anything physically happen to the camera to cause a motor sync issue.

I may have to send it off, but if I can fix the problem here, all the better. 


Thoughts?




Thanks!



-- 
Jay Young - Cinematographer
606-312-2628
YoungPictures.org
Kentucky, USA

Bruce Johnson
 

This kind of looks like some of the Saving Private Ryan look where they removed the shutter from the camera.  The streaks are created when the transport is dragging the film down the gate while still being exposed to light from the lens.  My guess would be that the shutter is not rotating or that it might be out of sync with the pull down mechanism so that the capping phase is not in sync with the pulldown phase.

-- 
----
Bruce Johnson
DP Los Angeles, CA

Herbert Forsberg
 

If it’s only on one roll I wonder if you might have possibly lost a loop.

 

Herbert Forsberg Cinematography

139 Sheridan Terrace

Ridgewood, NJ  07450

 

Home/office         201 652-6661

Cell                         201 446-9190

hforsberg@...

 

From: <cml-film@...> on behalf of Jay Young <jay@...>
Reply-To: <cml-film@...>
Date: Friday, May 25, 2018 at 3:34 PM
To: <cml-film@...>
Subject: [cml-film] Camera issue, possible causes?

 

I've got a problem with my CP-16r, bow-tie shutter.   The film transport sounds good and solid. There are no noises out of the ordinary, but there is definitely a problem as the footage shows.  Its almost like the film advance and shutter are out of sync, or the film was one perf out.  Sometimes this happens, but its easy to correct.

I've attached an example picture of the issue.

This effect if vertical blurring happens most of the time during start/stop operation, however in my current issue, it fluctuates and continues throughout the shot.  This is what all of the footage looks like.  As far as I can think, there has not been anything physically happen to the camera to cause a motor sync issue.

I may have to send it off, but if I can fix the problem here, all the better. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Thanks!

 



-- 
Jay Young - Cinematographer
606-312-2628
YoungPictures.org
Kentucky, USA

Mark Woods
 

I believe if you open up the side of the camera there will be synch indicators on the main gears that drive the movement.  That said, for them to have slipped possibly indicates another problem.  I’d contact Whitehouse organization to see if they have an understanding of what is going on.

I used to have one, and loved it dearly.

Mark

Francis M. Woods
Large Format Fine Art Black & White Still Photographer
Director of Photography
Pasadena, California
http://www.markwoods.com




On May 25, 2018, at 12:42 PM, Steve Gal via Cml.News <s816mm35mm=aol.com@...> wrote:

What lens are you using? Are you shooting wide open? 

Can you load the camera with film and check if the film stays
steady when the shutter is open? Is it a bowtie or half moon shutter?

Regards,
Steve Gal
Du-All Camera
(212) 643-1042
www.duallcamera.com 

Michael Bowie
 

As I recall...it had a cog-drive belt that could skip a tooth as it got old...easy to replace...if you can find one.  One of the great, handheld cameras ever.

Michael Bowie
DP
San Antonio, Texas

Mark Woods
 

That’s right!  I used to carry a spare.  Mind fade….

Mark

Francis M. Woods
Large Format Fine Art Black & White Still Photographer
Director of Photography
Pasadena, California
http://www.markwoods.com




On May 25, 2018, at 8:36 PM, Michael Bowie <michaelbowie47@...> wrote:

As I recall...it had a cog-drive belt that could skip a tooth as it got old...easy to replace...if you can find one.  One of the great, handheld cameras ever.

Michael Bowie
DP
San Antonio, Texas

Rick Gerard
 

Hate to jump in again but I put more than a million feet of film through a CP 16R and it’s the belt. They get brittle, teeth break off, and the shutter gets out of sync. Replace the belt. It is pretty easy to do if you can find a belt.

Rick Gerard
DP/VFX Supervisor
MovI Pro / ALTA / Licensed Commercial Pilot Fixed Wing and UAV
Northern CA

Jay Young
 

People keep telling me to get an Arri, but I do like this CP-16.  Someday I'll spend the money and get a PL conversion, but not yet.

There were a bunch of belts to be had online.  I'll see if I can find one of those.




Thanks!


On 5/26/2018 1:39 AM, Rick Gerard wrote:
Hate to jump in again but I put more than a million feet of film through a CP 16R and it’s the belt. They get brittle, teeth break off, and the shutter gets out of sync. Replace the belt. It is pretty easy to do if you can find a belt.

Rick Gerard


-- 
Jay Young - Cinematographer
606-312-2628
YoungPictures.org
Kentucky

Jessica Gallant
 

I used the CP-16 an awful lot in film school. The other students fought over the school’s Arri SRI and could
never figure out why the projects I shot looked better than their projects.

Jessica Gallant
Director of Photography | Los Angeles | CA
http://jessicajgallant.com
http://wb.imdb.com/name/nm0002680/
cell: 818-645-2787
email: jessicajgallant@...
Skype: jessicajgallant


On May 26, 2018, at 3:17 AM, Jay Young <jay@...> wrote:

People keep telling me to get an Arri, but I do like this CP-16

Mitch Gross
 

On May 26, 2018, at 11:07 AM, Jessica Gallant <jessicajgallant@...> wrote:

I used the CP-16 an awful lot in film school. The other students fought over the school’s Arri SRI and could
never figure out why the projects I shot looked better than their projects.

(Ron Howard’s voice):
“It wasn’t the camera.”


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Systems Solutions Company of North America
New York


Steven Holloway
 

I used the CP-16 in film school too. It was our go-to-camera... if we could get it. First time I used it though, I didn’t get the loop set right. Oh well, we were learning. Sometimes the hard way. :)

STEVEN HOLLOWAY
Cell (301) 332-1148

On May 26, 2018, at 11:07 AM, Jessica Gallant <jessicajgallant@...> wrote:

I used the CP-16 an awful lot in film school. The other students fought over the school’s Arri SRI and could
never figure out why the projects I shot looked better than their projects.

Jessica Gallant
Director of Photography | Los Angeles | CA
http://jessicajgallant.com
http://wb.imdb.com/name/nm0002680/
cell: 818-645-2787
email: jessicajgallant@...
Skype: jessicajgallant


On May 26, 2018, at 3:17 AM, Jay Young <jay@...> wrote:

People keep telling me to get an Arri, but I do like this CP-16

Argyris_Theos_cml
 

I bet it was not the camera :-) 


Argyris Theos, gsc 
DoP, Athens Greece,
+306944725315
Skype Argyris.Theos
via iPhone

26 Μαΐ 2018, 6:07 μμ, ο/η Jessica Gallant <jessicajgallant@...> έγραψε:

I used the CP-16 an awful lot in film school. The other students fought over the school’s Arri SRI and could
never figure out why the projects I shot looked better than their projects.

Jessica Gallant
Director of Photography | Los Angeles | CA
http://jessicajgallant.com
http://wb.imdb.com/name/nm0002680/
cell: 818-645-2787
email: jessicajgallant@...
Skype: jessicajgallant


On May 26, 2018, at 3:17 AM, Jay Young <jay@...> wrote:

People keep telling me to get an Arri, but I do like this CP-16