Topics

Kodak 5219 results

Geoff Boyle
 

I have resisted uploading the results of the 5219 from the camera tests I shot in July as I feel the scans are sub-standard.

However, I’ve had a lot of pressure to show them so I’m caving to that pressure. Hopefully you will realise why I haven’t uploaded them until now.

 

There are H264 versions that are untouched and also graded to match grey to Kodak spec.

 

The underexposed shots stop much earlier than they should because the scans clip the blacks badly, this shows to an extent on the ones that are included but I stopped before it got really bad.

 

There are EXR files which were created by loading the supplied ADX10 files into Resolve in ACES and output as AP0 EXR’s. I did this as sorting the original ADX10 into a meaningful order that removed most of the flash frames etc was going to be beyond me!

 

The images are soft, far softer than I would expect. In fact just looking at the images I would say that they are 10 bit 2K scans.

 

They are 16 bit 4K scans, processed and scanned by Kodak.

 

I have asked for the neg so that I can get someone else to scan it, you’d think that this would be in Kodaks interest, but I have received no replies to my many emails.

 

The page is linked from www.cmltests.net

 

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

Jay Young
 

Dear Geoff,

So far as I have seen with my own eyes, Kodak only owns Blackmagic Design Cintel scanners, and either works in conjunction or in parnter with other digital facility to scan material.  In both London and Atlanta I have only ever seen a Blackmagic Design scanner, and when discussing scanning options with Kodak directly they offer a solution at a reduced rate, but with limited options as to resolution and bit depth.

I do not know if the New York lab has a different scan machine, but as far as I have visited the labs in person, I have never seen a Scanity, Spirit, or Lasergraphic.  I have visited both the wet labs and the digital facilities which it seemed were not owned by Kodak.

The discussion of digitizing film and the quality of scanners is perhaps best saved for a different day. 

Good luck with the 5219.



I have asked for the neg so that I can get someone else to scan it, you’d think that this would be in Kodaks interest, but I have received no replies to my many emails.

 

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

-- 
Jay Young - Cinematographer
606-312-2628
YoungPictures.org
USA

Geoff Boyle
 

I’m pretty sure that London has a Scanity.

 

Anyway, the BMD Cintel is based on the Ditto which was a pretty good scanner.

 

I think it’s more the operation than the kit.

 

Kodak have been in touch with me and are arranging better scans.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> On Behalf Of Jay Young
Sent: 16 October 2018 15:14
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Kodak 5219 results

 

Dear Geoff,

So far as I have seen with my own eyes, Kodak only owns Blackmagic Design Cintel scanners, and either works in conjunction or in parnter with other digital facility to scan material.  In both London and Atlanta I have only ever seen a Blackmagic Design scanner, and when discussing scanning options with Kodak directly they offer a solution at a reduced rate, but with limited options as to resolution and bit depth.

I do not know if the New York lab has a different scan machine, but as far as I have visited the labs in person, I have never seen a Scanity, Spirit, or Lasergraphic.  I have visited both the wet labs and the digital facilities which it seemed were not owned by Kodak.

The discussion of digitizing film and the quality of scanners is perhaps best saved for a different day. 

Good luck with the 5219.





I have asked for the neg so that I can get someone else to scan it, you’d think that this would be in Kodaks interest, but I have received no replies to my many emails.

 

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

-- 
Jay Young - Cinematographer
606-312-2628
YoungPictures.org
USA

Justin Lovell
 

Hey Geoff, 

Happy to help with the scans.  We can do up to 5k HDR on our lasergraphicss scanstation, 8/16/35.

We have done some work with Kodak NY for higher res then what the Blackmagic scanner can provide. 

Www.framediscreet.com 

Justin Lovell 
Cinematographer || Storyteller

Associate Member, Canadian Society of Cinematographers 

Talk: M. 416.803.1101 / O. 416.901.5332 
Reel: www.justinlovell.com
Social: @justin_lovell

°sent with tpyos from my moible



 

Fo what its worth last time I had my 500T film scanned at Cinelab London and their tech swears by the Arriscan “any day of the week” (in a London accent) over the Scanity

Stephen Perera
Design + Photography
Gibraltar
T: +34667661936

On 16 Oct 2018, at 16:23, Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:

I’m pretty sure that London has a Scanity.
 
Anyway, the BMD Cintel is based on the Ditto which was a pretty good scanner.
 
I think it’s more the operation than the kit.
 
Kodak have been in touch with me and are arranging better scans.
 
cheers 
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076
 
 
From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> On Behalf Of Jay Young
Sent: 16 October 2018 15:14
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Kodak 5219 results
 

Dear Geoff, 

So far as I have seen with my own eyes, Kodak only owns Blackmagic Design Cintel scanners, and either works in conjunction or in parnter with other digital facility to scan material.  In both London and Atlanta I have only ever seen a Blackmagic Design scanner, and when discussing scanning options with Kodak directly they offer a solution at a reduced rate, but with limited options as to resolution and bit depth. 

I do not know if the New York lab has a different scan machine, but as far as I have visited the labs in person, I have never seen a Scanity, Spirit, or Lasergraphic.  I have visited both the wet labs and the digital facilities which it seemed were not owned by Kodak. 

The discussion of digitizing film and the quality of scanners is perhaps best saved for a different day.  

Good luck with the 5219.





I have asked for the neg so that I can get someone else to scan it, you’d think that this would be in Kodaks interest, but I have received no replies to my many emails.
 
 
cheers 
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076
 
 
-- 
Jay Young - Cinematographer
606-312-2628
YoungPictures.org
USA

Lorenzo Levrini
 

Cinelab has spirit, scanity and arriscan.

Lorenzo Levrini
Dp, London

Jeff Kreines
 

As far as I know, Kodak has equipped its labs with Blackmagic/Cintel scanners.

Think about it. Kodak is trying to make a case that shooting film is worth the (supposed) extra hassle and expense — but they use a low-cost scanner that isn’t going to show the film in a favorable light.

I don’t know of any real lab that uses this scanner.

That makes it the weakest link in Kodak’s chain. Another foolish decision by Kodak. Very sad.

(Disclaimer: I make Kinetta Archival Scanners for film archives. Blackmagic is not a competitor — their scanners are not designed for archival use [they use sprockets] . I am a fan of Grant Petty and love Resolve — this is not intended as a dis of the BM scanner, but rather a horses-for-courses comment. I also should point out that the Kinetta isn’t really aimed at scanning new film — it doesn’t have a Keycode reader because none of our users scan film that has machine-readable edge numbers.)

This is one of many silly decisions by Kodak — along the lines of their Super-8 camera with no viewfinder. It’s sad. We need Kodak to remain viable. This is shortsighted.

Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
jeff@...
kinetta.com

Sent from iPhone.

Geoff Boyle
 

The scans were done on a Scanity.

 

I have uploaded revised versions of the H264 and am currently uploading 16 bit DPX Cineon Log files to replace the EXR’s.

 

There will be another set of scans in the future done on a different scanner by a different company.

 

I simply want to get the best I can from film.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

Geoff Boyle
 

I have just uploaded the new scan from Kodak, the second scans were much better, the 5213 looks great and the 5219 is a little low contrast.

 

I’m impressed how good the 5213 looks, OK you need to light it but I always used lots of light! We’ve got lazy with high speed kit.

 

The neg is being scanned by another facility and I’ll upload those as soon as I have them. It’ll be interesting to see if there’s much difference.

 

https://cmltests.net/Kodak-5219.html

 

The DPX files are from the first scan, I’ll update them soon.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> On Behalf Of Geoff Boyle
Sent: 21 October 2018 08:42
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Kodak 5219 results

 

The scans were done on a Scanity.

 

I have uploaded revised versions of the H264 and am currently uploading 16 bit DPX Cineon Log files to replace the EXR’s.

 

There will be another set of scans in the future done on a different scanner by a different company.

 

I simply want to get the best I can from film.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

Justin Lovell
 

Which Kodak lab scanned it?  

Can you find out if it was on an Arri scanner or otherwise?  

New York Kodak is using a blackmagic so results could potentially be better in that case.

Thanks Geoff! 


Justin Lovell 
Associate Member Canadian Society of Cinematographers 

Geoff Boyle
 

It was a Scanity, but I think it was finger trouble rather than the machine.

 

The neg went to Kodak Pinewood and they dealt with it from there on.

 

I may well upload some frames I did for Kodak that compare the waveform from scan 1 and scan 2…

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> On Behalf Of Justin Lovell
Sent: 31 October 2018 10:57
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Kodak 5219 results

 

Which Kodak lab scanned it?  

 

Can you find out if it was on an Arri scanner or otherwise?  

 

New York Kodak is using a blackmagic so results could potentially be better in that case.

 

Thanks Geoff! 

 

 

Justin Lovell 

Associate Member Canadian Society of Cinematographers 

Jeff Kreines
 

Please do, Geoff.

Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
jeff@...
kinetta.com

Sent from iPhone.

On Oct 31, 2018, at 5:16 AM, Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:

I may well upload some frames I did for Kodak that compare the waveform from scan 1 and scan 2…

Justin Lovell
 

Thank Geoff,

Possible for you to ask what Kodak Pinewood scanned it on?

-----------------
Justin Lovell
Associate Member, Canadian Society of Cinematographers

WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM | 8/16/35mm 5K FILM SCANS
w. 416.901.5332  m. 416.803.1101


---------------------------------------------


Geoff Boyle
 

For the fourth time, it was scanned  on a Scanity

Geoff Boyle NSC
Cinematographer
Netherlands


From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> on behalf of Justin Lovell <just.love.film@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 12:08:01 PM
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Kodak 5219 results
 
Thank Geoff,

Possible for you to ask what Kodak Pinewood scanned it on?

-----------------
Justin Lovell
Associate Member, Canadian Society of Cinematographers

WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM | 8/16/35mm 5K FILM SCANS
w. 416.901.5332  m. 416.803.1101


---------------------------------------------

Justin Lovell
 

Apologies Geoff,

I misunderstood.
Reading this:

I may well upload some frames I did for Kodak that compare the waveform from scan 1 and scan 2…

I thought you were saying the first scan was a Scanity and the second was a different scan on something else that Kodak had.

-----------------
Justin Lovell
Associate Member, Canadian Society of Cinematographers

WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM | 8/16/35mm 5K FILM SCANS
w. 416.901.5332  m. 416.803.1101


---------------------------------------------


Tom Tomlinson
 

I apologize for misunderstanding but were the adx scans done on scanity. Then or now? It was my impression the machine can't do that---I waited a long time while we were running a scanity for germany to get that functionality going.

TomT
NYC

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Justin Lovell <just.love.film@...> wrote:
Apologies Geoff,

I misunderstood.
Reading this:

I may well upload some frames I did for Kodak that compare the waveform from scan 1 and scan 2…

I thought you were saying the first scan was a Scanity and the second was a different scan on something else that Kodak had.

-----------------
Justin Lovell
Associate Member, Canadian Society of Cinematographers

WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM | 8/16/35mm 5K FILM SCANS
w. 416.901.5332  m. 416.803.1101


---------------------------------------------




--
Tom Tomlinson
Telecine Ass't. / Colour Plumber
212-683-1704


352 Park Avenue South, 16th Floor, NY, NY, 10010

Geoff Boyle
 

Sorry, grumpy, especially with Canadians at the moment!

 

Both scans done on Scanity.

 

As to why I’m down on Canadians at the moment, ask your docco group guy…

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> On Behalf Of Justin Lovell
Sent: 31 October 2018 17:19
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Kodak 5219 results

 

Apologies Geoff,

 

I misunderstood.

Reading this:

 

I may well upload some frames I did for Kodak that compare the waveform from scan 1 and scan 2…

 

I thought you were saying the first scan was a Scanity and the second was a different scan on something else that Kodak had.

 

-----------------

Justin Lovell

Associate Member, Canadian Society of Cinematographers

WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM | 8/16/35mm 5K FILM SCANS

w. 416.901.5332  m. 416.803.1101

 

---------------------------------------------

 

Geoff Boyle
 

The scans were 16bit DPX and loaded in to ACES with the ADX10 IDT.

 

I’ve attached the scans of the 5213…

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> On Behalf Of Tom Tomlinson
Sent: 31 October 2018 17:35
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Kodak 5219 results

 

I apologize for misunderstanding but were the adx scans done on scanity. Then or now? It was my impression the machine can't do that---I waited a long time while we were running a scanity for germany to get that functionality going.

 

TomT

NYC

 

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Justin Lovell <just.love.film@...> wrote:

Apologies Geoff,

 

I misunderstood.

Reading this:

 

I may well upload some frames I did for Kodak that compare the waveform from scan 1 and scan 2…

 

I thought you were saying the first scan was a Scanity and the second was a different scan on something else that Kodak had.

 

-----------------

Justin Lovell

Associate Member, Canadian Society of Cinematographers

WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM | 8/16/35mm 5K FILM SCANS

w. 416.901.5332  m. 416.803.1101

 

---------------------------------------------

 



 

--

Tom Tomlinson
Telecine Ass't. / Colour Plumber
212-683-1704


352 Park Avenue South, 16th Floor, NY, NY, 10010

Ryan Lorg
 

Sorry for the bump, Geoff, but there aren't any scans in the MyAirBridge folder. Were they removed?

Geoff Boyle
 

I removed them because the second run was much better and I’m now waiting to see what other companies can do with the neg.

 

I’ll be uploading multiple scans later.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> On Behalf Of Ryan Lorg
Sent: 16 November 2018 17:10
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Kodak 5219 results

 

Sorry for the bump, Geoff, but there aren't any scans in the MyAirBridge folder. Were they removed?