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New 65mm Camera

Mark Wiggins
 

So I see that we have a new 65mm film camera!  Not only that, but it is a sort of hybrid film/digital camera!

https://logmar.dk/magellan-65mm/

I was wondering what people's thoughts are.  Particularly with the video bit/  Video taps were never the greatest yet the evf on this camera is UHD.  I'll be interested to see what the quality is like.

Regards,

Mark Wiggins
DOP
Camera Operator
London UK

ACO Member
www.mark-wiggins-dop.com
scare@...
07702 196876
skype: marktwiggins
http://theaco.net/members.asp?memberid=7006
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1341140/
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.wiggins.54?fref=ts

Mitch Gross
 

The concept is intriguing and I give the designer credit for some lateral thinking. But does anyone really need this camera to record audio? 

Interesting idea to forego the optical viewfinder. There could be a spinning mirror but based on the size I’m guessing not. Perhaps it’s a pellicle or maybe even an LCD panel that acts as an electronic shutter. But those could have polarization artifacts and the whole point of shooting 65mm is image quality. I’m definitely curious. 

As for the EVF, the optical v. electronic debate passed awhile back. The resolving power possible is as high or higher at 1080p. I’d suggest using the new generation of VariCam EVF just introduced (shameless plug), as it incorporates an optical zoom in the eyepiece to help check focus. Much better than the Small HD with Sidefinder pictured with the camera as that setup is sub-HD. 

As for UHD, there is no such thing as a UHD viewfinder so it’s pretty much academic at this point. I think that’s the designer indicating that he could put various sensors in there as required. I do wonder how he’s getting a sensor to cover that image size, likely using some optics to reduce from 65mm to something more commonly available. 

It’s an interesting backstory he shares. His design for a hybrid film/digital Super-8 camera was sold to Kodak (whatever happened to that project?) and he used the proceeds to design this 65mm camera. Talk about scaling up. 


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Media Entertainment Company
New York

On May 3, 2018, at 2:52 AM, Mark Wiggins <scare@...> wrote:

So I see that we have a new 65mm film camera!  Not only that, but it is a sort of hybrid film/digital camera!

https://logmar.dk/magellan-65mm/

I was wondering what people's thoughts are.  Particularly with the video bit/  Video taps were never the greatest yet the evf on this camera is UHD.  I'll be interested to see what the quality is like.

Regards,

Mark Wiggins
DOP
Camera Operator
London UK

ACO Member
www.mark-wiggins-dop.com
scare@...
07702 196876
skype: marktwiggins
http://theaco.net/members.asp?memberid=7006
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1341140/
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.wiggins.54?fref=ts

 

I love the fact it has a Hasselblad Zeiss mount….you can stick your Hasselblad lenses from the legendary V System…the 50mm, 80mm, 110mm 150mm and so on

Stephen Perera
Design + Photography
Gibraltar
+34667661936

On 3 May 2018, at 12:10, Mitch Gross <mitchgrosscml@...> wrote:

The concept is intriguing and I give the designer credit for some lateral thinking. But does anyone really need this camera to record audio? 

Interesting idea to forego the optical viewfinder. There could be a spinning mirror but based on the size I’m guessing not. Perhaps it’s a pellicle or maybe even an LCD panel that acts as an electronic shutter. But those could have polarization artifacts and the whole point of shooting 65mm is image quality. I’m definitely curious. 

As for the EVF, the optical v. electronic debate passed awhile back. The resolving power possible is as high or higher at 1080p. I’d suggest using the new generation of VariCam EVF just introduced (shameless plug), as it incorporates an optical zoom in the eyepiece to help check focus. Much better than the Small HD with Sidefinder pictured with the camera as that setup is sub-HD. 

As for UHD, there is no such thing as a UHD viewfinder so it’s pretty much academic at this point. I think that’s the designer indicating that he could put various sensors in there as required. I do wonder how he’s getting a sensor to cover that image size, likely using some optics to reduce from 65mm to something more commonly available. 

It’s an interesting backstory he shares. His design for a hybrid film/digital Super-8 camera was sold to Kodak (whatever happened to that project?) and he used the proceeds to design this 65mm camera. Talk about scaling up. 


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Media Entertainment Company
New York

On May 3, 2018, at 2:52 AM, Mark Wiggins <scare@...> wrote:

So I see that we have a new 65mm film camera!  Not only that, but it is a sort of hybrid film/digital camera!

https://logmar.dk/magellan-65mm/

I was wondering what people's thoughts are.  Particularly with the video bit/  Video taps were never the greatest yet the evf on this camera is UHD.  I'll be interested to see what the quality is like.

Regards,

Mark Wiggins
DOP
Camera Operator
London UK

ACO Member
www.mark-wiggins-dop.com
scare@...
07702 196876
skype: marktwiggins
http://theaco.net/members.asp?memberid=7006
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1341140/
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mark.wiggins.54?fref=ts

Jay Young
 

The writeup on in70mm.com suggests a Guillotine shutter.

For those that have not seen the article: http://www.in70mm.com/news/2018/magellan/index.htm

I have many questions, which I will probably ask at Cinegear.



On 5/3/2018 6:10 AM, Mitch Gross wrote:
The concept is intriguing and I give the designer credit for some lateral thinking. But does anyone really need this camera to record audio? 

Interesting idea to forego the optical viewfinder. There could be a spinning mirror but based on the size I’m guessing not. Perhaps it’s a pellicle or maybe even an LCD panel that acts as an electronic shutter. But those could have polarization artifacts and the whole point of shooting 65mm is image quality. I’m definitely curious. 

As for the EVF, the optical v. electronic debate passed awhile back. The resolving power possible is as high or higher at 1080p. I’d suggest using the new generation of VariCam EVF just introduced (shameless plug), as it incorporates an optical zoom in the eyepiece to help check focus. Much better than the Small HD with Sidefinder pictured with the camera as that setup is sub-HD. 

As for UHD, there is no such thing as a UHD viewfinder so it’s pretty much academic at this point. I think that’s the designer indicating that he could put various sensors in there as required. I do wonder how he’s getting a sensor to cover that image size, likely using some optics to reduce from 65mm to something more commonly available. 

It’s an interesting backstory he shares. His design for a hybrid film/digital Super-8 camera was sold to Kodak (whatever happened to that project?) and he used the proceeds to design this 65mm camera. Talk about scaling up. 


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Media Entertainment Company
New York


-- 
Jay Young
606-312-2628
Cinematographer
Kentucky

Art Adams
 

Existing 65mm cameras are very mature and have their own ecosystems, often with accompanying lenses. I'm not sure what need this fills. Anyone who shoots 65mm film will likely be able to afford one of those ecosystems.

Given how we are used to evaluating exposure using the tools available in HD, including viewfinders, I wonder if a video viewfinder would be deceptive.

One of the advantages of film cameras is that they are almost purely mechanical devices—although, in some cases, with very advanced electronic controls. I question the need to further merge the two worlds. That was the beauty of film: for many film cameras, the most important bit of electronics was the battery.

The ability to record sound is... interesting, but I think completely unnecessary, unless one is shooting ENG style with 65mm film.

And, lastly, aesthetics count.

I'll be curious to see where this goes, but it strikes me as a curiosity rather than as a viable tool... unless someone starts cranking out cheap 65mm film stock, in which case it would be very interesting indeed.

--
Art Adams
Director of Photography
San Francisco Bay Area

philipletourneau@...
 

It is indeed a 180 degree fixed angle guillotine shutter according to the companies website. Reminds me of the shutters in Beaulieu cameras. The monitoring options for the image are quite intriguing. 

I find it interesting that they chose to design and release a 65mm camera versus one in 35mm. I know there has been a mini-resurgence in the use of 65mm film as of late but one wonders if there is enough to justify a new camera. Perhaps this will further spur the use of 65mm, depending on the price point of the camera. I'm unsure of why anyone would want the sound capabilities in a camera of this format however.

Their Super 8 camera (with a pressure plate, a central sprocket, and a registration pin) was a success. Maybe the new 65mm camera will be a hit for them too! If so then could a new 35mm or Super 16 camera be next?

Philip Letourneau
Associate Member Canadian Society of Cinematographers
Instructor
Calgary, Alberta
Canada

Mitch Gross
 

On May 3, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Jay Young <jay@...> wrote:

The writeup on in70mm.com suggests a Guillotine shutter.

Perhaps, but there still has to be a beamsplitter of other accommodation for the video feed. 


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Media Entertainment Company
New York


Justin Lovell
 

Our Lasergraphics 5K Scanstation has the ability to be upgraded to scan 65mm in 5K and now in HDR.
Up to you if you feel 5K is enough res for 65mm.  Maybe not, but could be for dailies.  Interestingly, if we had the 65mm gate, we could scan 35mm stills film with it... hmmm..


-----------------
Justin Lovell
Associate Member, Canadian Society of Cinematographers

WWW.FRAMEDISCREET.COM | WE LOVE FILM | 8/16/35mm 5K FILM SCANS
w. 416.901.5332  m. 416.803.1101


---------------------------------------------

Mako Koiwai
 

Mirrorless still camera technology would say the eyepiece image is culled directly from the sensor.

Still camera EVF’s are definitely approaching Life Like.

makofoto, ret. Mirrorless Evangelist! s. pas, ca

Mako Koiwai
 


you can stick your Hasselblad lenses from the legendary V System

**********

Would make a nice “Vintage” lens series.

Hassy abandoned Zeiss a while ago for the next level up Fujinons … you know like the industry leading Fujinon Premier zooms. :-)

OK … but NOW Hassy is using Swedish designed XCD optics. :-(



makofoto, ret. s. pas. ca
Former V system owner ...

photo.bengt@...
 

Hi Justin!
...or VistaVision (35mm sideways)!  I must admit, though, that I think the LOGMAR Magellan 65 camera is a very bold move. Apparently, there will also later be a "Mark II" version, which accepts 1000ft magazines, which might make it more interesting for the industry, albeit as a MOS camera.
Bengt Fredén, photographer & DP,

Stockholm, Sweden

 

Our Lasergraphics 5K Scanstation has the ability to be upgraded to scan 65mm in 5K and now in HDR.
Up to you if you feel 5K is enough res for 65mm. Maybe not, but could be for dailies. Interestingly, if we had the 65mm gate, we could scan 35mm stills film with it... hmmm..

 
-----------------
Justin Lovell
Associate Member, CSC

Greg Lowry
 

On 4 May 2018, at 4:51, photo.bengt@... wrote:

...I think the_ LOGMAR Magellan 65_ camera is a very bold move.
"Very bold", if your definition of very bold is extremely high risk from
an investment perspective. At the time the Panavision 65 and ARRI 765
(in which I had some involvement) were introduced in the 90s, there were
over one thousand 70mm-equipped cinemas in the world, but neither of
these excellent technologies attained a meaningful market position in
the ten years prior to the digital revolution. Now there are precious
few diehard large format film users (and even fewer labs processing
65/70mm), and their productions are (mostly) at the peak of production
pyramid. They'll use IMAX film cameras, Panavision 65 or ARRI 765 long
before considering this new camera. One hates to deride anyone's
initiatives, but there is nothing to suggest that this product can
attain even a niche market position. For the sake of the camera's
developers/investors, I hope I'm wrong.

Greg Lowry
Scopica Group
Vancouver

james.palmer@...
 

"...but there is nothing to suggest that this product can attain even a niche market position..."

Always a need / application for specialized cameras.

Don't have any specs yet as to weight, but one very real application would be to fly with a drone.

With 8K acquisition and HDR displays coming down the pike, 65mm/5-perf could become the new 35mm/4-perf

Also, this camera could also serve as a demonstration of technology (of the unique Logmar film transport).

No reason to believe the method can't be scaled up to 15-perf (IMAX) format.

Long live film!

Jim Palmer
SIEMENS/PLM
http://www.siemens.com/plm
james.palmer@...

photo.bengt@...
 

Greg,  that is exactly what I meant with "bold move" (high risk of investment & development costs). I realize, of course, that this is an extreme niche (prototype) product, with several tried and proven systems already in the industry, for the (few) diehard directors of 65mm film. However, it might perhaps be interesting as a relatively 'handy' (shoulder-mounted) 'run-and-gun' MOS camera, to complement current (tripod-mounted) systems (ARRI 765 comes first to mind, but also the Panaflex System 65) that are a lot heavier & bulkier. (I don't know as yet if this is a sync sound camera?) Finally, I kind of like dreamers, pioneers, entrepreneurs, technical engineers and visionaries, like Tommy Lau Madsen of Denmark, he is a very pleasant man indeed.

Best regards, Bengt Fredén, photographer, Stockholm, Sweden

...I think the_ LOGMAR Magellan 65_ camera is a very bold move.
"Very bold", if your definition of very bold is extremely high risk from an investment perspective. At the time the Panavision 65 and ARRI 765 (in which I had some involvement) were introduced in the 90s, there were over one thousand 70mm-equipped cinemas in the world, but neither of these excellent technologies attained a meaningful market position in the ten years prior to the digital revolution. Now there are precious few diehard large format film users (and even fewer labs processing
65/70mm), and their productions are (mostly) at the peak of production pyramid. They'll use IMAX film cameras, Panavision 65 or ARRI 765 long
before considering this new camera. One hates to deride anyone's initiatives, but there is nothing to suggest that this product can attain even a niche market position. For the sake of the camera's developers/investors, I hope I'm wrong.

Greg Lowry
Scopica Group
Vancouver

photo.bengt@...
 


Another aspect of this camera, Greg, which is VERY 'BOLD' (for lack of a better word) is the use of Hasselblad/ Carl Zeiss T* lenses designed for still photography! From what I gather, the mount of the camera is a regular Hasselblad 'V' bayonet mount. I own and use many of these (excellent) lenses myself, and they are not exactly useful, as they are, for cinematography purposes. I assume that the development team plan to use the 'F' or 'FE' lenses, which do not have a central leaf shutter built-in, and which are also generally a stop faster (such as the Distagon F 2,8/50mm T* lens in some of the photos). All the same, those lenses would naturally have to be 'de-clicked' and focus rings made considerably smoother, to adapt to traditional follow-focus (geared) systems. And aperture and focus marks are not readable from the sides, but straight up. Not to mention that the front diameters of these still lenses might not be readily suitable for standard matte boxes, such as ARRI or Chroziel, Most of these lenses also move out (forward) when focused closer, only one of the wide, and the longest telephoto lenses have internal focus (IF). As you know, the lenses for the ARRI 765 camera are re-built and adapted Hasselblad/ Carl Zeiss T* still lenses (without the leaf shutters). For the ALEXA 65 digital camera system, however, the Hasselblad H/ Fujinon still lenses were chosen and (heavily) re-built to conform to cinematography standards.

Best regards, Bengt Fredén, photographer, Stockholm, Sweden

 

...I think the_ LOGMAR Magellan 65_ camera is a very bold move.
"Very bold", if your definition of very bold is extremely high risk from
an investment perspective...//...
Greg Lowry
Scopica Group
Vancouver

Mitch Gross
 

A lot more detail on the camera here, including an interview with the designer and some additional photos. 


Certain to have the highest tire-kick factor at CineGear. The ratio of “curious to look at” v “will ever actually use on a job” will be astronomical. 


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Media Entertainment Company
New York