Topics

Powering modern accessories to16mm Aaton Xtera

Brody Carmichael
 

Hi there, 

I have a short film coming up and we are shooting on an Aaton Xtera 16mm cam. I have a handful of accessories that I want to power on the camera, Odyssey q7+ monitor, Movcam wireless lens control, Teradek transmitter. I am stumped on what is the best way to power these accessories on the camera. the camera has several lemo ports that are specified in the manual to be used for speed, zoom, and run ( limo 2,5,6,8) . Normally I run all of these accessories off of P tap splitter to my my gold mount plate. I know several of my accessories have the proper lemo pin connectors. The Teradek has a 2 pin lemo and the movcam has a limo 6 pin, but my odyssey q7 has it own priority power connector. So I know I could get proper limo cables for the accessories that match up but those can be pretty expensive. and it wouldn't fix my monitor problem. Anybody have any suggestions? In a perfect world I would love to just have a lemo to female p tap adapter so I can just plug in my p tap splitter to power everything but I have not found such a thing. also probably would draw too much power from one port right? I'm not an AC so I might not be considering power consumption from the camera batteries enough. 

Any thought y'all have would be greatly appreciate. 

P.S. I also have the issue of using the monitor on the camera since the video tap is composite signal. I could just loose the monitor all together but we are doing some steadicam so we do need some way to monitor wirelessly

sign your messages or they will be lost

Mitch Gross
 

That’s not the proper monitor to use on that camera. For what it will cost in converters to change the signal you could rent or even purchase a cheap monitor. Just make sure it can accept composite standard def video. 

As for the rest of your bits & pieces, rather than go through a bunch of converters or cables which can get expensive quickly, I suggest you just rent a battery plate that you Velcro to the mags near the back. Use a modern lightweight cine-style battery in gold mount or V-lock and it will both balance the camera nicely as well as run your accessories for days. You could get a plate with a short XLR4 cable so it powers the camera as well, but your main move is to get those P-Taps. 


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Media Entertainment Company
New York

On May 22, 2018, at 3:02 PM, brodycarmichael@... wrote:

Hi there, 

I have a short film coming up and we are shooting on an Aaton Xtera 16mm cam. I have a handful of accessories that I want to power on the camera, Odyssey q7+ monitor, Movcam wireless lens control, Teradek transmitter. I am stumped on what is the best way to power these accessories on the camera. the camera has several lemo ports that are specified in the manual to be used for speed, zoom, and run ( limo 2,5,6,8) . Normally I run all of these accessories off of P tap splitter to my my gold mount plate. I know several of my accessories have the proper lemo pin connectors. The Teradek has a 2 pin lemo and the movcam has a limo 6 pin, but my odyssey q7 has it own priority power connector. So I know I could get proper limo cables for the accessories that match up but those can be pretty expensive. and it wouldn't fix my monitor problem. Anybody have any suggestions? In a perfect world I would love to just have a lemo to female p tap adapter so I can just plug in my p tap splitter to power everything but I have not found such a thing. also probably would draw too much power from one port right? I'm not an AC so I might not be considering power consumption from the camera batteries enough. 

Any thought y'all have would be greatly appreciate. 

P.S. I also have the issue of using the monitor on the camera since the video tap is composite signal. I could just loose the monitor all together but we are doing some steadicam so we do need some way to monitor wirelessly

sign your messages or they will be lost

Mitch Gross
 

Also you will need to convert the video signal if you really want to use that Teradek, so if you do that you could use your Odyssey. The conversion won’t be pretty. You’ll need to convert composite to digital and then uprez SD to HD. No way one box will do it and not sure if there are portable 12v versions of this stuff around anymore. 

Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Media Entertainment Company
New York

On May 22, 2018, at 3:02 PM, brodycarmichael@... wrote:

Hi there, 

I have a short film coming up and we are shooting on an Aaton Xtera 16mm cam. I have a handful of accessories that I want to power on the camera, Odyssey q7+ monitor, Movcam wireless lens control, Teradek transmitter. I am stumped on what is the best way to power these accessories on the camera. the camera has several lemo ports that are specified in the manual to be used for speed, zoom, and run ( limo 2,5,6,8) . Normally I run all of these accessories off of P tap splitter to my my gold mount plate. I know several of my accessories have the proper lemo pin connectors. The Teradek has a 2 pin lemo and the movcam has a limo 6 pin, but my odyssey q7 has it own priority power connector. So I know I could get proper limo cables for the accessories that match up but those can be pretty expensive. and it wouldn't fix my monitor problem. Anybody have any suggestions? In a perfect world I would love to just have a lemo to female p tap adapter so I can just plug in my p tap splitter to power everything but I have not found such a thing. also probably would draw too much power from one port right? I'm not an AC so I might not be considering power consumption from the camera batteries enough. 

Any thought y'all have would be greatly appreciate. 

P.S. I also have the issue of using the monitor on the camera since the video tap is composite signal. I could just loose the monitor all together but we are doing some steadicam so we do need some way to monitor wirelessly

sign your messages or they will be lost

steadicamop@...
 

Oh man, converting and uprezzing that tap and then expecting to use it on a steadicam.  Yeah, no.  Find yourself a SD monitor and transmitter otherwise the conversion delays are going to drive you nuts, that's IF you can make out the picture.

Like Mitch said the converters are going to be a boondoggle. Remember every time you add a connector you add two points of failure.


Eric Fletcher SOC
SOC Technical Chairman 
Steadicam/Camera Operator
www.EricFletcher.com

Brody Carmichael
 

Is it not possible to send the composit signal through the teradek and just convert it at village ? Your saying that no matter what I do there will be a delay with a composit signal. 


On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 12:54 AM <steadicamop@...> wrote:
Oh man, converting and uprezzing that tap and then expecting to use it on a steadicam.  Yeah, no.  Find yourself a SD monitor and transmitter otherwise the conversion delays are going to drive you nuts, that's IF you can make out the picture.

Like Mitch said the converters are going to be a boondoggle. Remember every time you add a connector you add two points of failure.


Eric Fletcher SOC
SOC Technical Chairman 
Steadicam/Camera Operator
www.EricFletcher.com

--
Brody Carmichael

Cinematographer / / Filmmaker 

Brodycarmichael.com
Austin, TX 

Kenny Sule
 

Respectfully, I frequently do the Teradek setup on a 416 and it’s not that bad (granted much different than Aaton in terms of powering accessories). 

Digital Forecast Bridge is 12v powered and does analog to HD-SDI. Also, the widely available and reliable AJA V2Digital will give you component/composite to SD-SDI which the Teradek will accept. The workaround to using a modern monitor on the Teradek Rx is going via HDMI. The Teradek Rx will send HDMI out even if it is receiving the SD signal - which is inherently HD. Sounds complicated but I promise you this is something very frequently done. 

However I do echo the thoughts here that p-tap is the way, and that it is wonky with several points of failure. Not exactly something I would bring onto a feature. 


Kenny Suleimanagich
310.936.1496

sue • lay • ma • na • gitch

On May 23, 2018, at 01:18, steadicamop@... wrote:

at's IF you can make out the picture

Brody Carmichael
 

I’m pretty resolved at this point that I will have a light weight battery on the cam to power p to power the accessories. Now I have this signal problem with my monitor and teradek. When you say the 416 teradek set up is not that bad are you referring to the type of signal being comparable or are you saying that just the video tap quality is not that bad. 


On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 1:34 AM Kenny Sule <kennysule@...> wrote:
Respectfully, I frequently do the Teradek setup on a 416 and it’s not that bad (granted much different than Aaton in terms of powering accessories). 

Digital Forecast Bridge is 12v powered and does analog to HD-SDI. Also, the widely available and reliable AJA V2Digital will give you component/composite to SD-SDI which the Teradek will accept. The workaround to using a modern monitor on the Teradek Rx is going via HDMI. The Teradek Rx will send HDMI out even if it is receiving the SD signal - which is inherently HD. Sounds complicated but I promise you this is something very frequently done. 

However I do echo the thoughts here that p-tap is the way, and that it is wonky with several points of failure. Not exactly something I would bring onto a feature. 


Kenny Suleimanagich
310.936.1496

sue • lay • ma • na • gitch

On May 23, 2018, at 01:18, steadicamop@... wrote:

at's IF you can make out the picture

--
Brody Carmichael

Cinematographer / / Filmmaker 

Brodycarmichael.com
Austin, TX 

steadicamop@...
 

There is no way for a Teradek to transmit a composite signal. The Teradek is a bitbucket. it only accepts a digital signal, it has no analog to digital conversion built into it.  So your signal flow would be Tap->analog to digital converter ->Uprezz->Teradek in-> Teradek Receiver->Monitor.   Delay will be 3-4 frames

Mark H. Weingartner
 

Eric mentioned the latency issue - not a problem for a director but not a good thing for an operator - losing a couple of frames to conversion is like driving a car with horribly worn tie-rod ends.

Just find a standard def monitor to use.


The IMAX camera I used on Dunkirk for our vfx unit was  standard def and the provided monitor was not great - luckily my key grip had a modern Transvideo monitor that could still show standard analog standard def without adding latency… important when chasing model planes around the sky.


Regarding power, if you find it difficult to power everything from one battery stop trying…   you can get a block battery mount designed to thread on a belt and either sling it over your shoulder, put it on a belt, or hang it from the tripod as the situation dictates…maybe stick your terradeck on the same belt.   Why screw up the ergonomics of one of the best cameras ever made to solve a non critical-path problem?

I admit to HATING pTAP as a power solution - I would rather use four pin XLR power splitters (I’ve made up many over the years) than run the risk of someone jamming a pTAP in backwards under pressure.


Mark Weingartner, ASC
Director of Photography
inclined towards Visual Effects

lost angeles

+1 818 970 6833 mobile
vfxmark@...
skype: vfxmark





Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
 

"You’ll need to convert composite to digital and then uprez SD to HD. No way one box will do it and not sure if there are portable 12v versions of this stuff around anymore"

Bluefish444 Synapse ANA140 device accepts composite  vídeo signal and output an upconverted HD-SDI signal.
It is a portable  12v device.
Not tested myself, but considering to purchase one unit  for the videotap of my Arriflex 435 Xtreme.

https://bluefish444.com/products/converters/features/synapse-converter-range/18/synapse-ana140.html

Best regards,
Daniel Henríquez Ilic
Post-Producer
Technical Consultant
Fotoquímica Films SpA
Santiago de Chile
fotoquimicafilms@...
+56 975543323

Mako Koiwai
 

Are you going to have a for real AC on this job?

Then that person should be involved in your plans. After all they are going to be expected to keep everything going.

You really should post this on the Camera Assistant Facebook page. THEY are the experts in making all this work



See what a nice job they can do, when all of this crap is requested.  :-(


Makofoto, So Happy That I’m Retired!
s. pasadena, ca 91030

Mitch Gross
 

On May 23, 2018, at 8:29 PM, Daniel Henríquez-Ilic <dhisur@...> wrote:

Bluefish444 Synapse ANA140 device accepts composite  vídeo signal and output an upconverted HD-SDI signal.
It is a portable  12v device.

Happy to learn something new every day, even when it’s related to old kit. 


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Systems Solutions Company of North America
New York


Geoff Boyle
 

Or of course you could use cml-ac and stop feeding the Zuck data machine.

 

 

Cheers

 

Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS

Cinematographer

Netherlands

www.gboyle.co.uk

 

 

 

From: cml-film@... <cml-film@...> On Behalf Of Mako Koiwai
Sent: 24 May 2018 03:38
To: cml-film@...
Subject: Re: [cml-film] Powering modern accessories to16mm Aaton Xtera

 

Are you going to have a for real AC on this job?

 

Then that person should be involved in your plans. After all they are going to be expected to keep everything going.

 

You really should post this on the Camera Assistant Facebook page. THEY are the experts in making all this work

 

Marty Oppenheimer
 

I realize I'm chiming in a bit late, but I have a suggestion on the power issue.

As I recall, the Xtera has two 4-pin inlets.  Our NP-1 Adapter is made for Aaton cameras (16 or 35).  Uses an NP-1 battery to power the camera AND also has a Lemo-6 for powering accessories directly from the battery, not through the camera.  Using a pair of these will provide 2 Lemo-6 ports that will allow lots of power draw.

Just my 2 cents

Marty Oppenheimer
Oppenheimer Camera Products
Seattle


On 5/23/2018 10:31 AM, Mark H. Weingartner wrote:
Eric mentioned the latency issue - not a problem for a director but not a good thing for an operator - losing a couple of frames to conversion is like driving a car with horribly worn tie-rod ends.

Just find a standard def monitor to use.


The IMAX camera I used on Dunkirk for our vfx unit was  standard def and the provided monitor was not great - luckily my key grip had a modern Transvideo monitor that could still show standard analog standard def without adding latency… important when chasing model planes around the sky.


Regarding power, if you find it difficult to power everything from one battery stop trying…   you can get a block battery mount designed to thread on a belt and either sling it over your shoulder, put it on a belt, or hang it from the tripod as the situation dictates…maybe stick your terradeck on the same belt.   Why screw up the ergonomics of one of the best cameras ever made to solve a non critical-path problem?

I admit to HATING pTAP as a power solution - I would rather use four pin XLR power splitters (I’ve made up many over the years) than run the risk of someone jamming a pTAP in backwards under pressure.


Mark Weingartner, ASC
Director of Photography
inclined towards Visual Effects

lost angeles

+1 818 970 6833 mobile
vfxmark@...
skype: vfxmark