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Re: Yet another camera company?

George Hupka
 

If that's to scale, it's too small to be a TA5, using the BNC time code connectors as a comparison - to me it looks more like the 5-pin mini Lemo on an Alexa Mini.
--

----------
George Hupka
Director/DP
Saskatoon, Canada
(Currently in Detroit, MI)
Listmum, Cinematography Mailing List


Re: Wednesday Zoom chat: without form, and void

Mark Weingartner, ASC
 

If the right person says, “Let there be light!”   then you can talk about lighting!

Mark Weingartner, ASC
Director of Photography
inclined towards Visual Effects
Los Angeles-based

On 6Dec, 2022, at 18:39 48PM, Adam Wilt <adam@...> wrote:

No one has proffered a topic for discussion, so there is none. If no topic is discussed, does a chat happen?

Wednesday:  LA 10am, NYC 1pm, UK 6pm, western Europe 19:00, India 23:30.



Adam Wilt
CML technical services
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)



Wednesday Zoom chat: without form, and void

Adam Wilt
 

No one has proffered a topic for discussion, so there is none. If no topic is discussed, does a chat happen?

Wednesday:  LA 10am, NYC 1pm, UK 6pm, western Europe 19:00, India 23:30.



Adam Wilt
CML technical services
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)


discount deal on a new book of interviews with cinematographers from around the world

Roberto Schaefer, ASC, AIC
 

I am the co-author of "The Cinematographer's Voice", a recently published book of interviews with lots of cinematographers many of whom are members of the ASC, BSC, ACS. It is published by the SUNY Press and we have a discount deal offer for anyone who wishes to purchase copies. Here is the deal:
code for discount purchases
--
Roberto Schaefer, ASC, AIC
Venice, CA
The Key To The Light Is In The Dark


Re: Yet another camera company?

M Bulbenko
 

Sorry. Correcting myself. The X-H2 is like 13 1/2 stops DR. The X-H2S has over 14. 

Michael Bulbenko
Fujifilm North America
Professional Markets Training Manager
Mobile: 408-829-8799

From: cml-general@... <cml-general@...> on behalf of M Bulbenko <mbulbenko@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 9:51:33 AM
To: cml-general@... <cml-general@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-general] Yet another camera company?
 
John....for 8K at a very reasonable price of $1999, maybe consider the Fujifilm X-H2 with internal ProRes and 14+ DR and very good IBIS. Doesn't have the usual I/O you may be looking for, but price can't be beat. 

From: cml-general@... <cml-general@...> on behalf of john sklba <sklba.art@...>
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2022 5:43 AM
To: cml-general@... <cml-general@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-general] Yet another camera company?
 

Honestly, I would be very interested in this at that price range, if the quality was there. Obviously, my needs aren't as serious as others here, but reframing 8k at a "reasonable" price would be helpful to my work. Shame Sharp never dropped their 8k. I was excited for that camera on paper.

 

John Sklba
Content Creator

Memphis, TN


NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, sensitive and/or privileged information, or information otherwise prohibited from dissemination or disclosure by law or regulation, including applicable export regulations. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, copying, dissemination or distribution of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately by reply email and destroy this message, including all attachments, and any copies thereof.

NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, sensitive and/or privileged information, or information otherwise prohibited from dissemination or disclosure by law or regulation, including applicable export regulations. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, copying, dissemination or distribution of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately by reply email and destroy this message, including all attachments, and any copies thereof.

NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, sensitive and/or privileged information, or information otherwise prohibited from dissemination or disclosure by law or regulation, including applicable export regulations. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, copying, dissemination or distribution of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately by reply email and destroy this message, including all attachments, and any copies thereof.


Re: Yet another camera company?

M Bulbenko
 

John....for 8K at a very reasonable price of $1999, maybe consider the Fujifilm X-H2 with internal ProRes and 14+ DR and very good IBIS. Doesn't have the usual I/O you may be looking for, but price can't be beat. 

From: cml-general@... <cml-general@...> on behalf of john sklba <sklba.art@...>
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2022 5:43 AM
To: cml-general@... <cml-general@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-general] Yet another camera company?
 

Honestly, I would be very interested in this at that price range, if the quality was there. Obviously, my needs aren't as serious as others here, but reframing 8k at a "reasonable" price would be helpful to my work. Shame Sharp never dropped their 8k. I was excited for that camera on paper.

 

John Sklba
Content Creator

Memphis, TN


NOTICE: This message, including any attachments, is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential, sensitive and/or privileged information, or information otherwise prohibited from dissemination or disclosure by law or regulation, including applicable export regulations. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, disclosure, copying, dissemination or distribution of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately by reply email and destroy this message, including all attachments, and any copies thereof.


Odyssey7Q support

Mitch Gross
 

Back to our Zoom topic of a few weeks ago, this morning I received an email blast from Convergent Design noting a few things.

- They still offer Apollo Multicam & RAW Recording options, now at reduced prices.

- They provide simple instructions for how to replace the internal clock battery.

- The still service Odyssey units except some parts are no longer available.

- They have software programs for Odyssey available to download.

You can contact CD directly to continue to breathe life into your aging Odyssey.


Mitch Gross
Prolycht Lighting
New York


Re: Yet another camera company?

Mitch Gross
 

Sure, a render of a TA5. 

Mitch Gross
Prolycht Lighting
New York

On Dec 5, 2022, at 9:39 PM, Eric Wenocur via cml.news <eric=lab-tech-systems.com@...> wrote:

Ummm, maybe. That doesn't look like a photo of the actual camera, it looks like a rendering.


Eric Wenocur
Lab Tech Systems


On 12/5/22 9:23 PM, Mitch Gross wrote:
I think that’s a TA5 “mini XLR,” commonly used for wireless mics.


Mitch Gross
Prolycht Lighting
New York

On Dec 5, 2022, at 9:18 PM, George Hupka <georgehupka@...> wrote:


--
That "XLR" connector doesn't really look like an XLR connector does it?


----------
George Hupka
Director/DP
Saskatoon, Canada
(Currently in Detroit, MI)
Listmum, Cinematography Mailing List


Re: Yet another camera company?

Eric Wenocur
 

Ummm, maybe. That doesn't look like a photo of the actual camera, it looks like a rendering.


Eric Wenocur
Lab Tech Systems


On 12/5/22 9:23 PM, Mitch Gross wrote:
I think that’s a TA5 “mini XLR,” commonly used for wireless mics.


Mitch Gross
Prolycht Lighting
New York

On Dec 5, 2022, at 9:18 PM, George Hupka <georgehupka@...> wrote:


--
That "XLR" connector doesn't really look like an XLR connector does it?


----------
George Hupka
Director/DP
Saskatoon, Canada
(Currently in Detroit, MI)
Listmum, Cinematography Mailing List


Re: Yet another camera company?

Mitch Gross
 

I think that’s a TA5 “mini XLR,” commonly used for wireless mics. 


Mitch Gross
Prolycht Lighting
New York

On Dec 5, 2022, at 9:18 PM, George Hupka <georgehupka@...> wrote:


--
That "XLR" connector doesn't really look like an XLR connector does it?


----------
George Hupka
Director/DP
Saskatoon, Canada
(Currently in Detroit, MI)
Listmum, Cinematography Mailing List


Re: Yet another camera company?

George Hupka
 


--
That "XLR" connector doesn't really look like an XLR connector does it?


----------
George Hupka
Director/DP
Saskatoon, Canada
(Currently in Detroit, MI)
Listmum, Cinematography Mailing List


Re: Yet another camera company?

john sklba
 

Honestly, I would be very interested in this at that price range, if the quality was there. Obviously, my needs aren't as serious as others here, but reframing 8k at a "reasonable" price would be helpful to my work. Shame Sharp never dropped their 8k. I was excited for that camera on paper.

 

John Sklba
Content Creator

Memphis, TN


Wednesday Zoom topic?

Adam Wilt
 

Suspiciously affordable 8K cameras? The industry’s culture of risk-taking? Something else? Write your suggestion in grease pencil on the black lightproof bag that a 400’ roll of Eastman 7250 VNF came in, and send it by motorcycle courier to CML’s World HQ for a chance to win valuable prizes!

Adam Wilt
CML technical services
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)


Re: Yet another camera company?

Pawel Achtel, ACS
 

Ø  A lot of this is way beyond the sensor module or the A/D converter. There’re always choices and good design and understanding users and so on. It’s never as easy as bolting part A to part B. I see lots of products that never make it past the “functioning” stage to the “good execution” one. 

I could not agree more, Mitch. From perspective of someone that successfully designed and build a digital cinema cameras that were used on several high-end feature projects, I have to say that solving 90% of design and understanding strengths and weaknesses of what is already on the market, alone, are not enough. Unless you can solve 100% of the challenges (which is a tall ask even to get to MVP stage) and, on top of that, offer unique features that add significantly to your value proposition (something that is both in demand and hasn’t been done yet), you are probably not going to pass “functioning” stage. If your offering is going to be only as good as the best of the best out there, you are probably wasting your time because there is no incentive for customers to even try your new product, let alone pay money to use it in demanding production environment.

 

Competing on the lower end of price range is even more risky because, unless you get economies of mass-scale production, your revenue stream will not cover the development cost. Not only have you needed to invest in R&D but also in up-front large scale production cost.

 

Personally, I appreciate the effort going into bring those new offerings to market. And, I think their marketing is just fine for the American audience, LOL J.

 

But, seriously, they managed to solve most of really difficult design and manufacturing challenges, even though they may be far from perfect. Given the complexity required to get this far is a commendable achievement. I wish them best of luck and success.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Pawel Achtel ACS B.Eng.(Hons) M.Sc.

ACHTEL PTY LIMITED, ABN 52 134 895 417

“Sharp to the Edge”

 

Member of:

ACS Technical Committee

GSCA Board of Directors and Technical Committee

IMAGO Technical Committee

 

Website: www.achtel.com

Mobile: 040 747 2747 (overseas: +61 4 0747 2747)

Mail: PO BOX 557, Rockdale, NSW 2216, Australia

Email: Pawel.Achtel@...

Facebook: facebook.com/PawelAchtel

Twitter: twitter.com/PawelAchtel

Skype: Pawel.Achtel

_._,_._,_


Re: Yet another camera company?

Mitch Gross
 

$200-$45,000 is quite the price range. 

A lot of this is way beyond the sensor module or the A/D converter. There’re always choices and good design and understanding users and so on. It’s never as easy as bolting part A to part B. I see lots of products that never make it past the “functioning” stage to the “good execution” one. 

Mitch Gross
Prolycht Lighting
New York

On Dec 4, 2022, at 5:31 PM, Philip Holland <phil@...> wrote:


We are in some interesting times at the moment with off the shelf sensors and even camera heads w/ recording modules in the $200-$45,000 range.  You can get those prices down further if you buy in bulk.

The effect of this is if you have the funds and time to make your own system you can, but there are many layers to that cake that must be figured out for professional applications.

There's only a few sensor fabricators out there and whether the company who makes those cameras owns the fabs or the companies that have sensor teams who design and commissions them to build them is a whole other thing.

From there its about having deeper pockets for FPGA or ASIC design and execution, but then there's again more layers after that.

I've seen the Bosma cams now at three trade shows during the last year, but as stated, build was not inspiring and was nearly all plastic.  It is LVP/MVP at it's best when it comes to what they are attempting for now.

I wouldn't be shocked if another one or two companies pop up shortly.  Perhaps more boutique offerings as well.

For now, the next pages for most of us shooting professionally will be scribed next year in bodies we will or will not be inspired by companies we know.  This was mainly a good year for Arri, RED, and Sony in the professional space.

Beyond Frank 8K I am a little sad that we never got to see what Craft Camera was all about.  But they also flopped.

One thing I will say, our industry has grown enough exponentially to allow so many cameras and companies as well as speed up the timeline of expected model releases.  What used to be 5-7 year cycle will likely be closer to 2-3 from here on out.  Don't know if that's good or bad, but I've heard voiced on both sides of that discussion.

Phil

-----------------
Phil Holland - Director & Cinematographer

From: cml-general@... <cml-general@...> on behalf of Adam Wilt via cml.news <adam=adamwilt.com@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 1:58 PM
To: cml-general@... <cml-general@...>
Cc: Adam Wilt <adam@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-general] Yet another camera company?
 
I had no idea that shooting 8K over 4K on the same camera makes such a difference to image contrast and saturation…

Take a closer look: that’s 4K @ 60fps and 8K @ 30fps. At 30fps each image is exposed twice as long, thereby allowing for a greater build-up of both contrast and saturation. Simple physics, really. ;-)

What gets me more is the motto “This is a feast of eyes.” Isn’t that how your cat starts disposing of you after you die?

And I’m puzzled by the images towards the bottom of the page, showing what looks to be a Canon EF lens on a mount adapter, with the lens hood reversed in storage position, blocking all access to lens controls. I can only infer that Bosma has solved autofocus, and with a 4/3” sensor, at that. /s

Pre-orders are $3500 at B&H. I’m half-tempted, if only to see just how close it is to a Z Cam in design and operation. The spec sheet gives off those same Hisilicon vibes (h/t Dan Chung).

Adam Wilt
technical services
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)


Re: Yet another camera company?

Pawel Achtel, ACS
 

Ø  Take a closer look: that’s 4K @ 60fps and 8K @ 30fps. At 30fps each image is exposed twice as long, thereby allowing for a greater build-up of both contrast and saturation. Simple physics, really. ;-)

Ø  What gets me more is the motto “This is a feast of eyes.” Isn’t that how your cat starts disposing of you after you die?

Ø  And I’m puzzled by the images towards the bottom of the page, showing what looks to be a Canon EF lens on a mount adapter, with the lens hood reversed in storage position, blocking all access to lens controls. I can only infer that Bosma has solved autofocus, and with a 4/3” sensor, at that. /s

 

LOL Pretty funny. Are you trying to say that well-established professional digital cinema camera makers are different in their marketing efforts? J

 

Kind Regards,

 

Pawel Achtel ACS B.Eng.(Hons) M.Sc.

ACHTEL PTY LIMITED, ABN 52 134 895 417

“Sharp to the Edge”

 

Member of:

ACS Technical Committee

GSCA Board of Directors and Technical Committee

IMAGO Technical Committee

 

Website: www.achtel.com

Mobile: 040 747 2747 (overseas: +61 4 0747 2747)

Mail: PO BOX 557, Rockdale, NSW 2216, Australia

Email: Pawel.Achtel@...

Facebook: facebook.com/PawelAchtel

Twitter: twitter.com/PawelAchtel

Skype: Pawel.Achtel

 


Re: Yet another camera company?

Philip Holland
 

We are in some interesting times at the moment with off the shelf sensors and even camera heads w/ recording modules in the $200-$45,000 range.  You can get those prices down further if you buy in bulk.

The effect of this is if you have the funds and time to make your own system you can, but there are many layers to that cake that must be figured out for professional applications.

There's only a few sensor fabricators out there and whether the company who makes those cameras owns the fabs or the companies that have sensor teams who design and commissions them to build them is a whole other thing.

From there its about having deeper pockets for FPGA or ASIC design and execution, but then there's again more layers after that.

I've seen the Bosma cams now at three trade shows during the last year, but as stated, build was not inspiring and was nearly all plastic.  It is LVP/MVP at it's best when it comes to what they are attempting for now.

I wouldn't be shocked if another one or two companies pop up shortly.  Perhaps more boutique offerings as well.

For now, the next pages for most of us shooting professionally will be scribed next year in bodies we will or will not be inspired by companies we know.  This was mainly a good year for Arri, RED, and Sony in the professional space.

Beyond Frank 8K I am a little sad that we never got to see what Craft Camera was all about.  But they also flopped.

One thing I will say, our industry has grown enough exponentially to allow so many cameras and companies as well as speed up the timeline of expected model releases.  What used to be 5-7 year cycle will likely be closer to 2-3 from here on out.  Don't know if that's good or bad, but I've heard voiced on both sides of that discussion.

Phil

-----------------
Phil Holland - Director & Cinematographer

From: cml-general@... <cml-general@...> on behalf of Adam Wilt via cml.news <adam=adamwilt.com@...>
Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 1:58 PM
To: cml-general@... <cml-general@...>
Cc: Adam Wilt <adam@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-general] Yet another camera company?
 
I had no idea that shooting 8K over 4K on the same camera makes such a difference to image contrast and saturation…

Take a closer look: that’s 4K @ 60fps and 8K @ 30fps. At 30fps each image is exposed twice as long, thereby allowing for a greater build-up of both contrast and saturation. Simple physics, really. ;-)

What gets me more is the motto “This is a feast of eyes.” Isn’t that how your cat starts disposing of you after you die?

And I’m puzzled by the images towards the bottom of the page, showing what looks to be a Canon EF lens on a mount adapter, with the lens hood reversed in storage position, blocking all access to lens controls. I can only infer that Bosma has solved autofocus, and with a 4/3” sensor, at that. /s

Pre-orders are $3500 at B&H. I’m half-tempted, if only to see just how close it is to a Z Cam in design and operation. The spec sheet gives off those same Hisilicon vibes (h/t Dan Chung).

Adam Wilt
technical services
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)


Re: Yet another camera company?

Adam Wilt
 

I had no idea that shooting 8K over 4K on the same camera makes such a difference to image contrast and saturation…

Take a closer look: that’s 4K @ 60fps and 8K @ 30fps. At 30fps each image is exposed twice as long, thereby allowing for a greater build-up of both contrast and saturation. Simple physics, really. ;-)

What gets me more is the motto “This is a feast of eyes.” Isn’t that how your cat starts disposing of you after you die?

And I’m puzzled by the images towards the bottom of the page, showing what looks to be a Canon EF lens on a mount adapter, with the lens hood reversed in storage position, blocking all access to lens controls. I can only infer that Bosma has solved autofocus, and with a 4/3” sensor, at that. /s

Pre-orders are $3500 at B&H. I’m half-tempted, if only to see just how close it is to a Z Cam in design and operation. The spec sheet gives off those same Hisilicon vibes (h/t Dan Chung).

Adam Wilt
technical services
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)


Re: Yet another camera company?

Jeff Kreines
 

What sensor?  What’s the dynamic range?  Price?

Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
jeff@...
kinetta.com

Sent from iPhone. 

On Dec 4, 2022, at 12:57 PM, Andrew Redd <andyred@...> wrote:

Meh, I’ve seen worse! Lol. You guys forget about the train wreck that was the Fran 8K?


Cheers,

Andrew Redd
Cinematographer
Dallas, TX
972.935.2206



On Dec 4, 2022, at 9:41 AM, Eric Wenocur via cml.news <eric=lab-tech-systems.com@...> wrote:

Just saw a full-page ad in TV Tech for these guys:

https://www.bosma8k.com/

Really?


Eric Wenocur
Lab Tech Systems


Re: Yet another camera company?

 

Meh, I’ve seen worse! Lol. You guys forget about the train wreck that was the Fran 8K?


Cheers,

Andrew Redd
Cinematographer
Dallas, TX
972.935.2206



On Dec 4, 2022, at 9:41 AM, Eric Wenocur via cml.news <eric=lab-tech-systems.com@...> wrote:

Just saw a full-page ad in TV Tech for these guys:

https://www.bosma8k.com/

Really?


Eric Wenocur
Lab Tech Systems

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