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locked "Shooters" Debate on Glass Thread

Robert
 

I rarely post anymore though I read everything. As a Professor who teaches Cinematography and as the President of our Faculty Union, I'd recommend Rachel for hire to teach Cinematography or Lighting any day of the week at our college. Want to move to Philadelphia? We need more women, more diversity not less. To suggest that every situation is the same is to put us firmly in the grip of sexism, racism, and ignorance. Personally I have made it a lifelong practice to treat everyone as I expect them to treat me -- with respect for my skills. Not for my looks, not for my beliefs, not for my ethnicity.  We are professionals and should behave as such. I have been horrified, disturbed, and disappointed by the shameful behavior my female colleagues have had to experience and endure as detailed in this thread. The sad thing is that I am not at all surprised. My own experience with prejudice in our industry is hurtful personally though it is barely worth mentioning because it is inconsequential compared with the virulent gender bias that has suppressed 52% of the people who could advance our profession. It is shameful that we as an industry put up roadblocks to prevent some from contributing. This must change. I want more voices heard in every aspect of our industry. As an GOMIB i am ready to compete with anyone on the basis of skill. The rest is utter shite that should be called out for what it is -- fear and the desire to maintain privilege. I hope I am making all of this perfectly clear to my students so that one day prejudice based on gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or belief disappears from our conversation so we can focus on merit and accomplishment. 

Robert M. Goodman
Professor, Cinematographer
Philadelphia, PA USA
215-200-4465

_._,_._,_

Rachel Dunn
 

The reluctance to do so until recently is at the core of the discussion.

Although there have always been progressive individuals who have mentored underrepresented people, the industry as a whole has been slow to embrace the concept.

Also, this business is very celebrity driven - even in the camera department.

All skills being equal, the person with the highest profile, and best pedigree often wins the job.

Not an environment conducive to the types of changes necessary.

Although it's nice to finally see women shooting A-list tent pole projects, it would be awesome to see more than a handful doing it.

- Rachel D

310-562-5779
www.racheldunn.com


On Mar 20, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Ted Langdell <tedlangdell@...> wrote:

Is the industry (and individuals selecting staff) prepared to onboard newcomers, ensure that people with skills are identifiable, "brought along?"

Ted Langdell
 

On Mar 14, 2018, at 11:50 AM, Gavin Greenwalt <im.thatoneguy@...> wrote:

We can’t claim to be a meritocracy if we aren’t even looking at alternatives.
Is the expected uptick in production (I.E. Netflix announcing $8 Billion to be spent, other content distributors putting more money into internet-distributed productions likely to create more openings, hence more alternatives?

Is the industry (and individuals selecting staff) prepared to onboard newcomers, ensure that people with skills are identifiable, "brought along?"


Ted

Ted Langdell
tedlangdell@...
(530)301-2931

Jen White
 


On Mar 17, 2018, at 9:28 AM, kate phelan <katephelan@...> wrote:

This harassment will not simply die out- we need to address it more thoughtfully and comprehensively if we're serious about equality.


True. Though it’s less common, I get disrespected by young male crew members the exact same way I have from older men.  

It’s an interesting cast study. You would think that since most film schools are at least approaching gender equality there would be much less of this. But even with the schools being closer to 50% women, that is not translating into numbers on set by a long shot. 

Though certain people would like to blame this solely on women having “different priorities” I think at this point in the conversation we can [hopefully] agree that that argument is a crock of shit and there must be different reasons. 

I recently helped out on a stats crunch by the folks over at fivethirtyeight.com and they combed through the crew of 500 films to see how the numbers laid out. The cinematography department (camera, electric, and grip) was found to be overwhelmingly male.  This was a follow up to an article where they had several filmmakers create the “next Bechtel Test”. None of the 50 films passed mine (only 23 passed minimally), which was essentially a 50/50 crew in each department, which for me addresses the issue of being able to have a half female crew but still have departments like camera and lighting that have no women at all. I know we are nowhere near that, but I think it should be the goal and a lot of progress can be made just in the attempt to reach it. 

Cinematography is more male than CLERGY. Let that sink in. Lots of interesting facts in the article. 


And I’ve already had an email mansplaining me about why my test is wrong [insert eye roll]. Because of course I have. 

Depressing as they are, I think it’s useful to finally have these stats. I’ve noticed a marked difference in people’s responses to this type of conversation over the last few years once there were finally numbers to talk about. For the majority of my career there simply were none and talking about it existed in the land of “it’s really bad but I can’t tell you how bad it is because no one is paying attention enough to figure it out”. 

I think it’s also worth noting that as of about a year ago, I was the only female DP in the entire central region of the ICG, which covers a huge chunk of the United States. Seeing the union numbers broken down by gender was a huge eye opener to say the least. 

Now that we know for certain where we are currently at, it’s time to decide how we want things to be and then mind the gap. 

And what is critical is to have everyone involved in this conversation and working to change it. No major social change has ever occurred without the involvement of the people who held the advantage. Once the “old white guys” decide to take this on with us things will really start to change.

[More later- I have to sleep so I can go be a human tripod again tomorrow]

jw



Jen White
ICG Local 600 DP
Los Angeles (currently in Dallas)
323-540-0659







Mako Koiwai
 

Fascinating This American Life, #MeToo podcast ... one boss, five woman:



Makofoto, s. pasadena, Ca

Rachel Dunn
 


It's extremely difficult to tell the difference between a nice guy and a sociopath, because the sociopath will tell you exactly what you want to hear, and flip out at the sound of "No.". (Yes, I know sociopaths are all genders, but please bear with me...)

The only way to actually tell the difference is to evaluate a person's behavior over time.  There is no shortcut to this process.

I believe a large part of the reason that so many woman doubt themselves and don't trust their own intuition is because nearly every one of them has dated a sociopath at some point in their dating history.  

And they have all experienced some form of gaslighting.

Have you ever said "you're crazy, it's like this, not that,"  to a woman?  That's a form of gaslighting.   

 "You're incorrect, its like this, not that," is not, because it doesn't accuse the person of mental instability.

I know it seems like an innocuous phrase, but if you hear it enough, it has an impact. That's why so many civil rights movements focus on language.  It's both a tool for change and entrenchment.

So guys, to help further reduce harassment on set, here's a quick tutorial - many enlightened gentlemen already know this, but it seems that some need to have it in writing so they can refer it it when they want to work with women ( or start dating someone.)

Starting the dating process is a fairly simple 4 part process:

1. Approach her with no expectations whatsoever,  and say, "Hi, I kind of like you, would you like to go out?

2. If she says no, then you say, "ok, cool."

3. Here's the important part - walk away and forget about dating her.  Accept it immediately and move on. No hard feelings, no stalking, no anger, no mind games. (And when you get home, it's OK to cry about your broken heart.)

4. Repeat steps 1-3 until someone you like says "sure." 

That's it. No frills. Just be respectful, which also means respecting the sound and meaning of "No.". (hint - it does NOT mean yes )

Then she will take her time evaluating you to make sure you're not a sociopath.  (Actually, you both will be evaluating each other, which is called "dating.") 

 If you've previously had a social interaction or two, she has already started the evaluation process, and by the time you ask, she has probably already decided if she is open to dating you or not. 

And there's nothing you can do to make her change her mind, regardless of what the RomComs lead you to believe.

If she's undecided, you might have a shot, but if you try to force the issue and use emotional blackmail, guilt, or abuse, you will reveal yourself to be the asshole you truly are, and that will be the end of that.

It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you as a person, she just felt you didn't fit - or she pegged you as an asshole.

It may only come down to something as elemental as smell, because evidently women can actually smell genetic diversity: 


However, I feel that the main reason anyone is reluctant to start a relationship is because they fear how that relationship will end;  Will it be happily ever after, will it be raped and dead in a ditch, or somewhere in between?   

From the woman's perspective, any of these outcomes are equally possible no matter who is hitting on you.

One last note:  I do believe that expectations are a major part of the problem. Not the expectation of a civil interaction, but the expectation that she will sleep with you because you think you're gods gift, or you bought her dinner.  

That's where the anger, resentment, and violence come from.  It's the mistaken entitled expectation that she will submit just because you believe you are awesome.

Where do these expectations come from?  Although family and peers play their part, I think a large part of it is how the media trains us to be good consumers;  "I've bought all the stuff that is meant to complete me, so of course I'm going to be loved by everyone I meet."

 When rejection shatters that belief, some try to force the submission. 

It doesn't even have to be an overt rejection, a sense of being ignored (because she's too busy working...) can produce the same effect and trigger all kinds of harassment in order to encourage or force submission.

I believe this can happen in both genders, the main difference is how people with expectations react to rejection, and whether that will trigger abuse or violence.

So in summation; DON'T BE A DICK !

- Rachel D

     310-562-5779


On Mar 17, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Jen White <imajen@...> wrote:

There is that quote that’s been floating around for a while: “Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.” 

We are ALWAYS on guard, because you never know who that guy will be who wants your attention and flips out when he doesn’t get it. Now imagine dealing with that on a set where you’re maybe one of two women and you have the added pressure of feeling like you can’t make a single mistake without losing your job. You can’t piss anyone off without losing your job. You can’t show emotion without losing your job. 

Jen White
 


On Mar 17, 2018, at 8:07 AM, kate phelan <katephelan@...> wrote:

i’ve heard women say, it was rough or i’ve got stories to tell. because this behavior is so common.
and the problem is NOT that we can’t take a joke or some guy asked us out and we said no. I’ve stood at the back of a truck for years- i can certainly hold my own
we are talking about workplace harassment that is discriminatory and prevents us from executing or succeeding in our jobs. (eg. 'I won’t skin that 12x because I don’t take orders from a woman.' said to me by a grip) 
we are talking about verbal and physical assault. 
and this behavior is bullshit.

and that’s why i outed myself- i don’t have anything to lose in this forum and it seems like this voice is desperately needed. 
some men (cough) underplay these incidents so as not to take responsibility for perpetuating an environment where women are at risk and then surprise surprise, we don’t succeed. and honestly, not every woman wants to spend all her time educating men about how to be decent people.



“I won’t hire you because you can’t carry ___________ while you’re on your period” 

“get off your knees, honey, you’ve already got the job” 

assistants flat out refusing to do what I say because I’m a woman, even though they knew that when they were hired in my department. 

grabbing. 

groping. 

jokes at our expense.

a key grip putting a picture of his genitals in with the continuity photos and then gathering all of his buddies to watch my reaction. 

and on and on and on and on. 



There is that quote that’s been floating around for a while: “Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.” 

We are ALWAYS on guard, because you never know who that guy will be who wants your attention and flips out when he doesn’t get it. Now imagine dealing with that on a set where you’re maybe one of two women and you have the added pressure of feeling like you can’t make a single mistake without losing your job. You can’t piss anyone off without losing your job. You can’t show emotion without losing your job. 

I’m with Kate- I can hang. I curse like a sailor and I love a good inappropriate joke *when it’s not belittling or shaming anyone*. The intention is everything, which is kind of the underlying point of all of this. 


Jen White
DP/LA (currently Dallas)





Rachel Dunn
 

No worries Art... bigger fish to fry...

- Rachel D

     310-562-5779


On Mar 17, 2018, at 8:14 AM, Art Adams <art.cml.only@...> wrote:

Oh, and I misspelled your name. Sorry. :(

--

Art Adams // Director of Photography

415.797.7681

Represented by SRA
212.564.7892

via iPhone

On Mar 17, 2018, at 10:13 AM, Art Adams <art.cml.only@...> wrote:

Rachael- your description of gaslighting is perfect, and recognition is the best way to extinguish it. I concur that you’ve spotted it in the wild and revealed it for what it is. Nicely done.

It’s unfortunate that this is necessary, but it is -- both because it exists, and because it works. 

--

Art Adams // Director of Photography

415.797.7681

Represented by SRA
212.564.7892

via iPhone

On Mar 17, 2018, at 9:35 AM, Rachel Dunn <rachel@...> wrote:

This is called gaslighting.

It is a psychological manipulation commonly used by sociopaths to undermine their victims by casting doubt on their psychological well-being or motives.

It happens all the time, and is a primary fixture of abusive relationships. 

Often times the sociopath is able to paint the victim as the perpetrator, and themselves as the victim.

See how easy it is?  

How easy was it to believe that I was exactly what Robert accused me of being, until I stood up for myself and those claims were exposed for the lies they were?   

Now ask yourselves how many women you know have been subjected to this? 

How many of those women were afraid or unable to speak up because they might be put in the hospital or killed.

One of the biggest health threats to women worldwide is domestic violence:


Louis CK did a great routine on the subject.

Even if this is an exaggeration, it's not a very big one. Far too many women are killed each year by an abusive partner.

Although I wasn't killed, I've been in an abusive relationship myself and luckily, managed to get out just as it started to turn violent.

So the next time someone is talking about their 'crazy girlfriend,' you might want to take it with a grain of salt and try to see the bigger picture.

You might actually wind up saving a life.

- Rachel D

      310-562-5779


On Mar 16, 2018, at 4:54 PM, Bryan Donnell <bddp@...> wrote:

I suppose that if you believe that sexism doesn’t exist (or barely exists, not so much as to be a problem) in our industry, then it would make sense that if a woman complains about sexism you would call her lazy or victimized. But from Rachel’s emails I don’t get that vibe at all. So, hmmm

Art Adams
 

Oh, and I misspelled your name. Sorry. :(

--

Art Adams // Director of Photography

415.797.7681

Represented by SRA
212.564.7892

via iPhone

On Mar 17, 2018, at 10:13 AM, Art Adams <art.cml.only@...> wrote:

Rachael- your description of gaslighting is perfect, and recognition is the best way to extinguish it. I concur that you’ve spotted it in the wild and revealed it for what it is. Nicely done.

It’s unfortunate that this is necessary, but it is -- both because it exists, and because it works. 

--

Art Adams // Director of Photography

415.797.7681

Represented by SRA
212.564.7892

via iPhone

On Mar 17, 2018, at 9:35 AM, Rachel Dunn <rachel@...> wrote:

This is called gaslighting.

It is a psychological manipulation commonly used by sociopaths to undermine their victims by casting doubt on their psychological well-being or motives.

It happens all the time, and is a primary fixture of abusive relationships. 

Often times the sociopath is able to paint the victim as the perpetrator, and themselves as the victim.

See how easy it is?  

How easy was it to believe that I was exactly what Robert accused me of being, until I stood up for myself and those claims were exposed for the lies they were?   

Now ask yourselves how many women you know have been subjected to this? 

How many of those women were afraid or unable to speak up because they might be put in the hospital or killed.

One of the biggest health threats to women worldwide is domestic violence:


Louis CK did a great routine on the subject.

Even if this is an exaggeration, it's not a very big one. Far too many women are killed each year by an abusive partner.

Although I wasn't killed, I've been in an abusive relationship myself and luckily, managed to get out just as it started to turn violent.

So the next time someone is talking about their 'crazy girlfriend,' you might want to take it with a grain of salt and try to see the bigger picture.

You might actually wind up saving a life.

- Rachel D

      310-562-5779


On Mar 16, 2018, at 4:54 PM, Bryan Donnell <bddp@...> wrote:

I suppose that if you believe that sexism doesn’t exist (or barely exists, not so much as to be a problem) in our industry, then it would make sense that if a woman complains about sexism you would call her lazy or victimized. But from Rachel’s emails I don’t get that vibe at all. So, hmmm

Art Adams
 

Rachael- your description of gaslighting is perfect, and recognition is the best way to extinguish it. I concur that you’ve spotted it in the wild and revealed it for what it is. Nicely done.

It’s unfortunate that this is necessary, but it is -- both because it exists, and because it works. 

--

Art Adams // Director of Photography

415.797.7681

Represented by SRA
212.564.7892

via iPhone

On Mar 17, 2018, at 9:35 AM, Rachel Dunn <rachel@...> wrote:

This is called gaslighting.

It is a psychological manipulation commonly used by sociopaths to undermine their victims by casting doubt on their psychological well-being or motives.

It happens all the time, and is a primary fixture of abusive relationships. 

Often times the sociopath is able to paint the victim as the perpetrator, and themselves as the victim.

See how easy it is?  

How easy was it to believe that I was exactly what Robert accused me of being, until I stood up for myself and those claims were exposed for the lies they were?   

Now ask yourselves how many women you know have been subjected to this? 

How many of those women were afraid or unable to speak up because they might be put in the hospital or killed.

One of the biggest health threats to women worldwide is domestic violence:


Louis CK did a great routine on the subject.

Even if this is an exaggeration, it's not a very big one. Far too many women are killed each year by an abusive partner.

Although I wasn't killed, I've been in an abusive relationship myself and luckily, managed to get out just as it started to turn violent.

So the next time someone is talking about their 'crazy girlfriend,' you might want to take it with a grain of salt and try to see the bigger picture.

You might actually wind up saving a life.

- Rachel D

      310-562-5779


On Mar 16, 2018, at 4:54 PM, Bryan Donnell <bddp@...> wrote:

I suppose that if you believe that sexism doesn’t exist (or barely exists, not so much as to be a problem) in our industry, then it would make sense that if a woman complains about sexism you would call her lazy or victimized. But from Rachel’s emails I don’t get that vibe at all. So, hmmm

Rachel Dunn
 

This is called gaslighting.

It is a psychological manipulation commonly used by sociopaths to undermine their victims by casting doubt on their psychological well-being or motives.

It happens all the time, and is a primary fixture of abusive relationships. 

Often times the sociopath is able to paint the victim as the perpetrator, and themselves as the victim.

See how easy it is?  

How easy was it to believe that I was exactly what Robert accused me of being, until I stood up for myself and those claims were exposed for the lies they were?   

Now ask yourselves how many women you know have been subjected to this? 

How many of those women were afraid or unable to speak up because they might be put in the hospital or killed.

One of the biggest health threats to women worldwide is domestic violence:


Louis CK did a great routine on the subject.

Even if this is an exaggeration, it's not a very big one. Far too many women are killed each year by an abusive partner.

Although I wasn't killed, I've been in an abusive relationship myself and luckily, managed to get out just as it started to turn violent.

So the next time someone is talking about their 'crazy girlfriend,' you might want to take it with a grain of salt and try to see the bigger picture.

You might actually wind up saving a life.

- Rachel D

      310-562-5779


On Mar 16, 2018, at 4:54 PM, Bryan Donnell <bddp@...> wrote:

I suppose that if you believe that sexism doesn’t exist (or barely exists, not so much as to be a problem) in our industry, then it would make sense that if a woman complains about sexism you would call her lazy or victimized. But from Rachel’s emails I don’t get that vibe at all. So, hmmm

kate phelan
 


They have mostly gone now and the guys who got in because of family are now as rare in cameras, grips and electric as the dinosaurs they reflect.

That is not to say it’s good now, just far far better than it was.


I agree- things have improved and I think the crews coming up are hopefully more equal.

It's funny- when I joined 52 and was gaffing, I was most concerned about the old school family guys- grips and electrics who'd done the job for years. I found those men to be the MOST gracious and welcoming. I had many more problems with men who had a masters in film and resented a woman, any woman who was telling them what to do.

This harassment will not simply die out- we need to address it more thoughtfully and comprehensively if we're serious about equality.


Geoff Boyle
 

Total bullshit and not part of any business I want to be part of.

Things have changed hugely since I first got involved in 35mm and larger productions in the mid 80’s, I’m making the distinction because before that working in 16mm on doccos I rarely came across the kind of crap that I did on the larger jobs.

The guys who were obnoxious testosterone loaded apes.

They have mostly gone now and the guys who got in because of family are now as rare in cameras, grips and electric as the dinosaurs they reflect.

That is not to say it’s good now, just far far better than it was.

We need to keep moving in the direction we have for the last 30 years.

It’s a slow process but it is happening, we can all help it to keep happening.

 

Cheers

 

Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS

Cinematographer

Zoetermeer

www.gboyle.co.uk

+31 (0) 637 155 076

 

From: cml-general@... <cml-general@...> On Behalf Of kate phelan

(eg. 'I won’t skin that 12x because I don’t take orders from a woman.' said to me by a grip) 

we are talking about verbal and physical assault. 

and this behavior is bullshit.

 

kate phelan
 

Is Kate Phelan a liar ? 

I guess they’re just playing the victim card in your view ?

#MeToo came about because it resonated deeply with women who felt they weren’t being heard or believed. 



i’ve heard women say, it was rough or i’ve got stories to tell. because this behavior is so common.
and the problem is NOT that we can’t take a joke or some guy asked us out and we said no. I’ve stood at the back of a truck for years- i can certainly hold my own
we are talking about workplace harassment that is discriminatory and prevents us from executing or succeeding in our jobs. (eg. 'I won’t skin that 12x because I don’t take orders from a woman.' said to me by a grip) 
we are talking about verbal and physical assault. 
and this behavior is bullshit.

and that’s why i outed myself- i don’t have anything to lose in this forum and it seems like this voice is desperately needed. 
some men (cough) underplay these incidents so as not to take responsibility for perpetuating an environment where women are at risk and then surprise surprise, we don’t succeed. and honestly, not every woman wants to spend all her time educating men about how to be decent people.



Rachel Dunn
 

Thanks Robert,

I will take you up on that offer.

Please feel free to contact me off list - especially if you need any west coast footage for your projects.

Take care, and talk soon.

- Rachel D

310-562-5779
www.racheldunn.com


On Mar 16, 2018, at 12:39 PM, Robert Houllahan <lunarfilms@...> wrote:

- The Robert who would definitely hire you if I could to do some great work -

Bryan Donnell
 

Robert, 

It’s great that you’re not biased against sex or race. 

That said, if I have some women who say that sexism exists and they deal with it often, I’m going to take their word for it over a guy who says that he doesn’t see it. Maybe you can’t see it, but you might not be able to. 

(P. S....just because Obama got elected as president doesn’t mean racism ceased to exist. Same with Shonda Rhimes and sexism.)

I suppose that if you believe that sexism doesn’t exist (or barely exists, not so much as to be a problem) in our industry, then it would make sense that if a woman complains about sexism you would call her lazy or victimized. But from Rachel’s emails I don’t get that vibe at all. So, hmmm. 

It would be one thing if you voiced an opinion that you don’t see sexism, and then listened to the counterargument that women have seen sexism, and you tried to learn from them, without even meaning you surrendered your opinion. But it feels like you are calling those who disagree with you victimized and lazy. 

Since you only want to hire people who don’t play the victim, does that mean you wouldn’t hire a woman who believed they encounter sexism?

Aren’t you pretty much taking the perspective that you’re right, and that the women who think otherwise need to have it explained to them? Isn’t that mansplaining?

It’s possible to disagree without getting defensive. But look at the quote below — aren’t you playing victim? 

Bryan Donnell
cinematographer
LA, CA
213.321.3909 c
reel etc at bryandonnell.com




On Mar 16, 2018, at 3:08 PM, Robert Ruffo via Cml.News <robert_ruffo=yahoo.com@...> wrote:


Oh sorry.  I probably violated group think approved points of view above.  You may have to report me to the Ministry of Right Thought.
 

Robert Houllahan
 

There are 4483 subscribers on CML-General as of 9 am PST this morning. You just sent an email to all 4483
of them saying you would not hire a woman who points out that women are underrepresented in the industry
and underrepresented in the camera dept. 


And Jessica hits that nail on the head…..


And this from Rachel was priceless:

"Ok... first off Robert, you might see more discrimination and sexism if you had a bigger set of boobs.

Just because you can't see it, and it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist."




- The Robert who would definitely hire you if I could to do some great work - 



Robert Houllahan
Film Maker
Providence R.I.

the Low Anthem doc
Asc. Producer / Analog Cinematography








Mitch Gross
 

On Mar 16, 2018, at 10:25 PM, Rachel Dunn <rachel@...> wrote:

Mansplaining would be you trying to tell me which end of the camera to look through.

Well, actually...


Mitch Gross
Cinema Product Manager 
Panasonic Media Entertainment Company
New York


John Brawley
 


On Mar 16, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Robert Ruffo via Cml.News <robert_ruffo=yahoo.com@...> wrote:
 but not sexism (nor sexual harassment I have ever heard of) when it comes to, specifically,  hiring crew members.  Gay men and women are also more than welcome and treated the same as everyone else.  Simply no issues.  None.  Now this may not be the case in L.A. (although i find that hard to believe) , may not be the case in red states, but in Montreal and N.Y.C., yes, it's the case, for very, very rare exception.



It’s galling to me that you don’t even see the hypocrisy of a white middle aged guy speaking as if you have the final word based on your local experience that this isn’t happening. 

It’s in direct contradiction of those in this thread that are saying this is exactly what’s happening TO THEM.

Then on top of that you denigrate those that have a different experience to your white guy director / DP experience.  Also known as not hearing or believing women.

This is not about your opinion. 

You don't see it because you’re not the one that is a victim of it.  

And how would you actually know if it’s happening ? You’re not on every single set. You’re not there before the project even gets to set.  Are you that well connected and plugged in that you know what’s happening on every production out there ?  You’ve taken a poll have you ?

I presume then you’ve run into the women in this thread that have directly contradicted this assertion you’ve now posted twice ? 

Is Kate Phelan a liar ? 

I guess they’re just playing the victim card in your view ?

#MeToo came about because it resonated deeply with women who felt they weren’t being heard or believed. 

Your posts are incredibly damaging and discouraging to women who are already struggling to trust that they can speak openly about their experiences in a safe and non-judgemental way.  I know there are more women lurking out there who don’t want to post because of posts like yours.

You’re not listening or hearing what women are saying in this thread and writing it off as not being possible because market forces wouldn’t allow it and stating that women choose not to do certain jobs because they prefer to be writers and producers and you’re a nice white guy that wouldn’t let this sort of thing happen anyway.

Maybe you’re right.  But I want to hear it from women not from you. 

Your white guy director / dp opinion doesn’t count for much right at the moment.  I don’t think you can get away with “everything’s fine over here in NY and Montreal, carry on” 

Here’s some statistics.

"More than half of American women have experienced unwanted and inappropriate sexual advances from men, three in 10 have put up with unwanted advances from male co-workers and a quarter have endured them from men who had influence over their work situation.”

That means Robert, 25% of the women you’ve worked with have endured an overtone from a man in a position of influence in your workplace and they don’t say anything because they feel it won’t be believed, that it won’t be addressed or will negatively affect their career. 

“...among women who’ve personally experienced unwanted sexual advances in the workplace, nearly all, 95 percent, say male harassers usually go unpunished.

And 

"Among women who’ve experienced unwanted sexual advances in the workplace, fewer than half, 42 percent, say they reported it to someone in a supervisory position."

Source 

Maybe you should try listening to women instead of taking advice from other men about women.



JB


John (just another white guy) Brawley
Chicago Illinois
DP - Untitled Pilot - formerly Gone Baby Gone





Rachel Dunn
 

That's not mansplaining, that supportive confirmation, and is much appreciated.

Mansplaining would be you trying to tell me which end of the camera to look through.

- Rachel D

310-562-5779
www.racheldunn.com


On Mar 16, 2018, at 7:11 PM, Mitch Gross <mitchgrosscml@...> wrote:

I REALLY don’t want to be mansplaining here, but I also feel it important not to just see the women stating how they have been discriminated against.

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