Topics

Advice on Reference Books - reg

richard nathan
 

Greetings all , 

I would like to have  few books on  Fundamentals on Digital Cinematography handy with me. 

I am looking for book/books with detailed comprehensive explanations on various topics like  

1. in-depth explanation on  4:4:4:4
2. What is the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:4:4HQ 
3. Effect of Ultra Violet in digital cinematography 
4. Exposure time = shutter angle/360 * Frames per second   -  can this formula be applied to digital cameras also? 

and not just restricting to these topics alone. 

Any suggestions are  welcome. 

PS :  I am looking for physical books rather than searching on Google cause Google would rather be more precise on the question I have asked it while a physical book will have topics related to it and would help me read into other topics as well. 

I am looking for a lifelong investment through books! 

So kindly suggest few book/books which would act like a digital cinematography encyclopedia ! 

I am open to e-book as well.  

Thanks in advance .  

-- 
Regards,
Richard M Nathan

 

Richard,

I know its not a physical book but http://digitalfactbook.tv is very good and should be able to answer some of those questions (not all but some).

Used to be the Quantel Digital Facebook so it has a pretty good pedigree..

Michael Sanders
London Based DP.

+ 44 (0) 7976 269818




On 11 Apr 2018, at 08:36, richard nathan <richardmnathan@...> wrote:

1. in-depth explanation on  4:4:4:4
2. What is the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:4:4HQ 
3. Effect of Ultra Violet in digital cinematography 
4. Exposure time = shutter angle/360 * Frames per second   -  can this formula be applied to digital cameras also? 

Mike Sippel
 

“Digital Cinematography: Fundamentals, Tools, Techniques, and Workflows” by occasional CML poster Dave Stump, ASC is a great general reference text.  Blain Brown’s “The Filmmaker’s Guide to Digital Imaging” is also a great reference.

Disclaimer: I helped review a few of the chapters in Blain’s book for technical accuracy, though I received no compensation and have no financial interest in its sale.

Mike Sippel

Senior Field Support Technician

Arri Rental

Atlanta, USA

 

 

Mike Sippel

Senior Field Support Technician

 

ARRI Rental
3980 Dekalb Technology Pkwy #800
Atlanta, GA 30340
Phone: (678) 248-5432
Website | Facebook | Twitter

ARRIRENTAL


This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.




This email has been scanned for email related threats and delivered safely by Mimecast.
For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com

Art Adams
 

>1. in-depth explanation on  4:4:4:4


The first three numbers related to how much color info is being retained. Roughly, the first number is luma and should always be four. The subsequent numbers show how much color data is being thrown away. 4:2:2 is common for broadcast and some recording codecs (Sony's XAVC, for example) and basically says that half the chroma is being thrown away. That results in slightly "defocused" color, but nobody notices because we're most sensitive to luminance.  4:1:1 is throwing away most of the color info, as is 4:2:0, which is doing the same but in a different way.

It's a bit more complicated than that, and the Wikipedia page goes into more detail, but that's the short version and it works best for most things. You're generally going to have trouble with anything less than 4:4:4 if you're shooting green screen or for HDR. A high quality 4:2:2 codec works well for most things.
 
2. What is the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:4:4HQ 

I don't know that it exists. There's 444 and 444XQ, and 422 and 422HQ. It boils down to compression: HQ and XQ are generally less compressed and use higher bitrates, for better quality.
 
3. Effect of Ultra Violet in digital cinematography

Shouldn't be much effect as the spectral filter pack in front of the sensor should trim that off. Plus, silicon isn't very sensitive to short wavelengths of light anyway.
 
4. Exposure time = shutter angle/360 * Frames per second   -  can this formula be applied to digital cameras also? 

Yes. Exactly the same. It's a cheat, because digital film cameras don't have rotating shutters, but the formula works the same. 144 degree shutter at 24fps = 1/160th second. You can set most cameras to read out in either way.

The difference is that a shutter angle will change with the frame rate, so a 144 degree shutter at 24fps is 1/60th but at 48fps is 1/120th. An absolute shutter (1/60th or 1/120th) won't.

As for books... I'm not up on that. I've tech edited a couple of Blain Brown's books and he goes into some of that. A lot of this is available on the Internet. I don't know anyone who covers all of the above topics in a book.

--
Art Adams
Director of Photography
San Francisco Bay Area

Raul Arantes
 


I really like Alan Roberts's book, Circles of Confusion.




Raul Arantes



On 11 April 2018 at 15:36, richard nathan <richardmnathan@...> wrote:
Greetings all , 

I would like to have  few books on  Fundamentals on Digital Cinematography handy with me. 

I am looking for book/books with detailed comprehensive explanations on various topics like  

1. in-depth explanation on  4:4:4:4
2. What is the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:4:4HQ 
3. Effect of Ultra Violet in digital cinematography 
4. Exposure time = shutter angle/360 * Frames per second   -  can this formula be applied to digital cameras also? 

and not just restricting to these topics alone. 

Any suggestions are  welcome. 

PS :  I am looking for physical books rather than searching on Google cause Google would rather be more precise on the question I have asked it while a physical book will have topics related to it and would help me read into other topics as well. 

I am looking for a lifelong investment through books! 

So kindly suggest few book/books which would act like a digital cinematography encyclopedia ! 

I am open to e-book as well.  

Thanks in advance .  

-- 
Regards,
Richard M Nathan

richard nathan
 

Thanks for the input Micheal , Mike and Adams . 
Appreciate you taking time to reply. 



On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Art Adams <art.cml.only@...> wrote:
>1. in-depth explanation on  4:4:4:4


The first three numbers related to how much color info is being retained. Roughly, the first number is luma and should always be four. The subsequent numbers show how much color data is being thrown away. 4:2:2 is common for broadcast and some recording codecs (Sony's XAVC, for example) and basically says that half the chroma is being thrown away. That results in slightly "defocused" color, but nobody notices because we're most sensitive to luminance.  4:1:1 is throwing away most of the color info, as is 4:2:0, which is doing the same but in a different way.

It's a bit more complicated than that, and the Wikipedia page goes into more detail, but that's the short version and it works best for most things. You're generally going to have trouble with anything less than 4:4:4 if you're shooting green screen or for HDR. A high quality 4:2:2 codec works well for most things.
 
2. What is the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:4:4HQ 

I don't know that it exists. There's 444 and 444XQ, and 422 and 422HQ. It boils down to compression: HQ and XQ are generally less compressed and use higher bitrates, for better quality.
 
3. Effect of Ultra Violet in digital cinematography

Shouldn't be much effect as the spectral filter pack in front of the sensor should trim that off. Plus, silicon isn't very sensitive to short wavelengths of light anyway.
 
4. Exposure time = shutter angle/360 * Frames per second   -  can this formula be applied to digital cameras also? 

Yes. Exactly the same. It's a cheat, because digital film cameras don't have rotating shutters, but the formula works the same. 144 degree shutter at 24fps = 1/160th second. You can set most cameras to read out in either way.

The difference is that a shutter angle will change with the frame rate, so a 144 degree shutter at 24fps is 1/60th but at 48fps is 1/120th. An absolute shutter (1/60th or 1/120th) won't.

As for books... I'm not up on that. I've tech edited a couple of Blain Brown's books and he goes into some of that. A lot of this is available on the Internet. I don't know anyone who covers all of the above topics in a book.

--
Art Adams
Director of Photography
San Francisco Bay Area




--
Regards,
Richard M Nathan

Bob Kertesz
 

>1. in-depth explanation on  4:4:4:4


The first three numbers related to how much color info is being retained. Roughly, the first number is luma and should always be four. The subsequent numbers show how much color data is being thrown away. 4:2:2 is common for broadcast and some recording codecs (Sony's XAVC, for example) and basically says that half the chroma is being thrown away. That results in slightly "defocused" color, but nobody notices because we're most sensitive to luminance.  4:1:1 is throwing away most of the color info, as is 4:2:0, which is doing the same but in a different way.


What Art said. The last 4 in 4:4:4:4 is a sampled alpha channel which I've never seen used by anyone, ever, in production. There is no way currently to use it in a camera (so it's effectively 4:4:4:0), and an alpha that travels with the image is only used by VFX people, although the currently available codecs don't give much detail on how or why, and to my knowledge none of them actually support 4:4:4:4 in any meaningful way. I occasionally use the Adobe Animation codec to carry 4:2:2:2 with an alpha when I'm doing VFX, but it has many limitations. Things change quickly in the biz, and this info may not be totally accurate with new software releases. But in general, it's how it works.

3. Effect of Ultra Violet in digital cinematography

Shouldn't be much effect as the spectral filter pack in front of the sensor should trim that off. Plus, silicon isn't very sensitive to short wavelengths of light anyway.

If you've ever used blue Kinos to light a bluescreen, there's a ton of serious artificial UV (as opposed to sunlight) being scattered around, and depending on the sensor, there can be issues. In a three chip camera, that UV tends to seriously saturate the blue channel very quickly, far more quickly than you would imagine. In a single chip camera, a lot depends on the filter pack and composition of the sensor. In the above mentioned blue Kino scenario, some cameras will do fine, and some will get hopelessly confused and reproduce the blue as cyan, or green, or something else. Most of the current cameras have dealt with fixing this in some form or another, but not all.

Also, some of the crappier LED instruments, especially the multi-color ones I refer to as 'party lights' which are being used more and more in production, spew some outrageous amounts of artificial UV. They have never met an illegal color they couldn't make.

I second the recommendation of Dave Stump's book. It's the reference bible on a lot of aspects of digital shooting.

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *

Art Adams
 

I forgot about Dave's book. I second that.

--
Art Adams
Director of Photography
San Francisco Bay Area

James Malamatinas
 

I further recommend Dave Stump and Blaine Brown's - both excellent reference books. Although some overlap between the two I found they complimented each pretty well and having both has been valuable. 

 

--

James Malamatinas

2nd Assistant Camera

London, UK

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2993543/ 

richard nathan
 

Thank you all. Buying Dave Stump's and Brown's book. 


On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 7:04 PM, James Malamatinas <jamesm@...> wrote:

I further recommend Dave Stump and Blaine Brown's - both excellent reference books. Although some overlap between the two I found they complimented each pretty well and having both has been valuable. 

 

--

James Malamatinas

2nd Assistant Camera

London, UK

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2993543/ 




--
Regards,
Richard M Nathan

Previous Topic Next Topic