Topics

Macro lens v snorkel lens

Matthew Woolf
 

Hi Everyone,

I have a tabletop shoot coming up next week. There is one complicated shot and i am trying to figure out the best approach.
Probably the best and correct way would be to use motion control, but we can't afford that.
So here is the shot and my ideas:

2 products - #1 Burger with fillings, patty etc #2 Sub sandwich with fillings
The shot will be similar - ECU track across the ingredients in the sandwich & ECU boom up or down on the ingredients in the burger - 
in both instances the camera would continue its move but change direction and and then pull out at a 90 degree or 45 degree  wide enough to reveal a full shot of each product.

I am planning to light up to a T11 or T16 to give me the depth of field to keep focus. 
Would this shot be done better using a macro lens or a snorkel lens like a t-rex?
I am trying to avoid camera shake and reduce the human element of lining up 3 different camera movements as best as possible.
Any help or input would be appreciated as always.

thanks

Matthew Woolf
NYDP
+1 917-399-9565

Graham Futerfas
 

If you use an Optex Probe, your initial Pan across the ingredients would feel more like a dolly, and then you can do your secondary move. Or Incorporate a slider on a dolly or jib arm.

I also like the Straight Shoot’r for tabletop work, but you can’t do a hard stop without bumping the shot, so I usually have to feather out the tail of the shot and the director usually has to understand how that piece of equipment works.

Best,
-Graham



---
Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
---

Matthew Woolf
 

Thanks Graham

One idea was to do a slider then dolly back on track or use a fisher cross arm or a straight shooter 
But either way you’re thinking a scope rather than a macro? You think the scope can get tight enough on the food ?

Matthew Woolf
Director of Photography 
+1 917 399 9565
Agent: DDATalent - +1 310 474 4585
Commercials/Music Videos: Juanita Tiangco
Feature/Television: Dan Burnside

On Oct 1, 2018, at 13:36, Graham Futerfas <gfuterfas.cml@...> wrote:

If you use an Optex Probe, your initial Pan across the ingredients would feel more like a dolly, and then you can do your secondary move. Or Incorporate a slider on a dolly or jib arm.

I also like the Straight Shoot’r for tabletop work, but you can’t do a hard stop without bumping the shot, so I usually have to feather out the tail of the shot and the director usually has to understand how that piece of equipment works.

Best,
-Graham



---
Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
---

Steve Oakley
 

I did this a good few years back. Fisher 10( 11?) with short jib arm. might of been losmandy, it was maybe 5ft long. on the end of that, a 3 way steadman head underslung from jib. worked great.

Steve Oakley
DP / Editor / Colorist / VFX Artist
Madison & Milwaukee WI
920 544 2230

On Oct 1, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Graham Futerfas <gfuterfas.cml@...> wrote:

If you use an Optex Probe, your initial Pan across the ingredients would feel more like a dolly, and then you can do your secondary move. Or Incorporate a slider on a dolly or jib arm.

I also like the Straight Shoot’r for tabletop work, but you can’t do a hard stop without bumping the shot, so I usually have to feather out the tail of the shot and the director usually has to understand how that piece of equipment works.

Best,
-Graham



---
Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
---
_._,_._,_

Andre szankowski
 

Hi Matthew

Did you consider the skater scope ?
T-Rex has smaller lenses but skater you can make part of you move


André Szankowski AIP - AFC        

Agent/rep:       

Trinity Agency Hamburg    
 hamburg@...                         

Agent/rep North&South America:

Partos Co - Los Angeles 
ajay@...                  



Matthew Woolf
 

Sounds great Steve but did you use a macro lens or a scope lens?

Matthew Woolf
Director of Photography 
+1 917 399 9565
Agent: DDATalent - +1 310 474 4585
Commercials/Music Videos: Juanita Tiangco
Feature/Television: Dan Burnside

On Oct 1, 2018, at 21:49, Steve Oakley <steveo@...> wrote:

I did this a good few years back. Fisher 10( 11?) with short jib arm. might of been losmandy, it was maybe 5ft long. on the end of that, a 3 way steadman head underslung from jib. worked great.

Steve Oakley
DP / Editor / Colorist / VFX Artist
Madison & Milwaukee WI
920 544 2230

On Oct 1, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Graham Futerfas <gfuterfas.cml@...> wrote:

If you use an Optex Probe, your initial Pan across the ingredients would feel more like a dolly, and then you can do your secondary move. Or Incorporate a slider on a dolly or jib arm.

I also like the Straight Shoot’r for tabletop work, but you can’t do a hard stop without bumping the shot, so I usually have to feather out the tail of the shot and the director usually has to understand how that piece of equipment works.

Best,
-Graham



---
Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
---

Matthew Woolf
 

I did think about the skater scope - it’s great for moves around an axis point but going in two different directions is not so easy in my experiences as you have to change the dial and that would take too much time

Matthew Woolf
Director of Photography 
+1 917 399 9565
Agent: DDATalent - +1 310 474 4585
Commercials/Music Videos: Juanita Tiangco
Feature/Television: Dan Burnside

On Oct 1, 2018, at 12:26, Andre szankowski via Cml.News <aszankowski1=mac.com@...> wrote:

Hi Matthew

Did you consider the skater scope ?
T-Rex has smaller lenses but skater you can make part of you move


André Szankowski AIP - AFC        

Agent/rep:       

Trinity Agency Hamburg    
 hamburg@...                         

Agent/rep North&South America:

Partos Co - Los Angeles 
ajay@...                  



Mako Koiwai
 

Include a “turntable” ?

Makofoto, s. pas, ca

Matthew Woolf
 

Yes Mako there will be a turntable being used 

Matthew Woolf
Director of Photography 
+1 917 399 9565
Agent: DDATalent - +1 310 474 4585
Commercials/Music Videos: Juanita Tiangco
Feature/Television: Dan Burnside

On Oct 1, 2018, at 22:06, Mako Koiwai <mako1foto@...> wrote:

Include a “turntable” ?

Makofoto, s. pas, ca

Steve Oakley
 

for the product I was shooting wide & macro. I was doing vertical moves of about 12-15”, rotations and horizontal moves. if it was food on a table, probably go scope if you want to get into the foodscape. if you don’t have to put the lens really into things, macro should do fine if you don’t have to get that close to things.

Steve Oakley
DP / Editor / Colorist / VFX Artist
Madison & Milwaukee WI
920 544 2230

On Oct 1, 2018, at 10:02 PM, Matthew Woolf via Cml.News <matwoolf=yahoo.com@...> wrote:

Sounds great Steve but did you use a macro lens or a scope lens?

Matthew Woolf
Director of Photography 
+1 917 399 9565
Agent: DDATalent - +1 310 474 4585
Commercials/Music Videos: Juanita Tiangco
Feature/Television: Dan Burnside

On Oct 1, 2018, at 21:49, Steve Oakley <steveo@...> wrote:

I did this a good few years back. Fisher 10( 11?) with short jib arm. might of been losmandy, it was maybe 5ft long. on the end of that, a 3 way steadman head underslung from jib. worked great.

Steve Oakley
DP / Editor / Colorist / VFX Artist
Madison & Milwaukee WI
920 544 2230

On Oct 1, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Graham Futerfas <gfuterfas.cml@...> wrote:

If you use an Optex Probe, your initial Pan across the ingredients would feel more like a dolly, and then you can do your secondary move. Or Incorporate a slider on a dolly or jib arm.

I also like the Straight Shoot’r for tabletop work, but you can’t do a hard stop without bumping the shot, so I usually have to feather out the tail of the shot and the director usually has to understand how that piece of equipment works.

Best,
-Graham



---
Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
---

James Barber
 

Have you looked at the C-Pan Arm? Great way to get smooth side to side, inward/outward curved movement, and in-out within a small range of motion which might be perfect for tabletop. Combined with that weird looking new Laowa probe macro lens, I imagine you'd get a very easy setup that would look amazing. No option to motorise the slide for exact repeats on this setup though.

James Barber
Director/DoP/Editor Yadayadayada
London

On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 05:14, Steve Oakley <steveo@...> wrote:
for the product I was shooting wide & macro. I was doing vertical moves of about 12-15”, rotations and horizontal moves. if it was food on a table, probably go scope if you want to get into the foodscape. if you don’t have to put the lens really into things, macro should do fine if you don’t have to get that close to things.

Steve Oakley
DP / Editor / Colorist / VFX Artist
Madison & Milwaukee WI
920 544 2230

On Oct 1, 2018, at 10:02 PM, Matthew Woolf via Cml.News <matwoolf=yahoo.com@...> wrote:

Sounds great Steve but did you use a macro lens or a scope lens?

Matthew Woolf
Director of Photography 
+1 917 399 9565
Agent: DDATalent - +1 310 474 4585
Commercials/Music Videos: Juanita Tiangco
Feature/Television: Dan Burnside

On Oct 1, 2018, at 21:49, Steve Oakley <steveo@...> wrote:

I did this a good few years back. Fisher 10( 11?) with short jib arm. might of been losmandy, it was maybe 5ft long. on the end of that, a 3 way steadman head underslung from jib. worked great.

Steve Oakley
DP / Editor / Colorist / VFX Artist
Madison & Milwaukee WI
920 544 2230

On Oct 1, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Graham Futerfas <gfuterfas.cml@...> wrote:

If you use an Optex Probe, your initial Pan across the ingredients would feel more like a dolly, and then you can do your secondary move. Or Incorporate a slider on a dolly or jib arm.

I also like the Straight Shoot’r for tabletop work, but you can’t do a hard stop without bumping the shot, so I usually have to feather out the tail of the shot and the director usually has to understand how that piece of equipment works.

Best,
-Graham



---
Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
---

Jay Webster
 

Yes Graham,
Been there, faced it. The director's understanding is critical to the shot working in the end!
Thanks for the post! You articulated it on the money!



On Mon, Oct 01, 2018 at 02:36 PM, Graham Futerfas wrote:

If you use an Optex Probe, your initial Pan across the ingredients would feel more like a dolly, and then you can do your secondary move. Or Incorporate a slider on a dolly or jib arm.

I also like the Straight Shoot’r for tabletop work, but you can’t do a hard stop without bumping the shot, so I usually have to feather out the tail of the shot and the director usually has to understand how that piece of equipment works.

Best,
-Graham



---
Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
---

Mako Koiwai
 


The director's understanding is critical to the shot working in the end!

*********

Which is why perhaps most table top shooters are Director/Dp’s ….  :-)

As you can perhaps see, a lot of high end table top shots are now always done with motion control. It’s just to iffy and frustrating to try to do complicated tight moves “by hand" … when the real star is the food/product. We never go past 10 hours.

We typically have one each AC, grip, gaffer, prop master but 7 folks in the Food Styling/prep department!

Since we are “always waiting for food” we typically have three or four sets going/being lit/set-up, etc. Four and more cameras. (typically all in-house)

No photos of the custom 9 axis motion control rig … which even controls the table top surface. Or the miniature one that is typically underslung and mounted on a slider.


makofoto, Bjoin Studio, Burbank, CA





Aasulv Wolf Austad, FNF
 

For what Matthew is describing I would go for Optex Probe lens, it just sounds like shadows could be tricky with a macro on that shot. I typically prefer to not go underslung for macro work as f.ex. a straight shooter gets in my lights, particularly if I use a macro lens. Not so much with the Optex since it's so long.
So I often ask for a pedestal (Chapman Cobra gets in any doorway, but others are good too) and a 3 or 4ft slider on top, with stops so I don't tip it over if I have to do both boom and slide at the same time. Could also use something smaller like the Kuka robot arm and some smaller limited probes (can't remember their name right now) as you don't need that long of a focus throw. Here's a link with the Kuka robot in it. That shoot was DP'ed by Carlos Montaner. https://vimeo.com/292411954
--
Aasulv 'Wolf' Austad, FNF
DP, Altadena, California
http://wolfaustad.com

Mako Koiwai
 


The director's understanding is critical to the shot working in the end!

*********

Which is why perhaps most table top shooters are Director/Dp’s ….  :-)

As you can perhaps see, a lot of high end table top shots are now always done with motion control. It’s just to iffy and frustrating to try to do complicated tight moves “by hand" … when the real star is the food/product. We never go past 10 hours.

We typically have one each AC, grip, gaffer, prop master but 7 folks in the Food Styling/prep department!

Since we are “always waiting for food” we typically have three or four sets going/being lit/set-up, etc. Four and more cameras. (typically all in-house)

No photos of the custom 9 axis motion control rig … which even controls the table top surface. Or the miniature one that is typically underslung and mounted on a slider.



makofoto, Bjoin Studio, Burbank, CA
https://www.bjoinfilms.com