Topics

locked "Shooters" Debate on Glass Thread

George Hupka
 

In my experience "shooters" is used a lot in television and particularly sports television, where nicknames are pretty much universal.  Doesn't particularly bother me, but given the sensitivity around security these days, I've stopped using the word "shooting" and gone to "filming" (even when we're digital, sorry purists!) to avoid any unintentional confusion with overheard conversations...

When I started out in TV news in the '80s, we called ourselves Photographers - we had two women photogs and that neatly solved the "cameraman/woman" issue.    It did not take long for the reporters and other staff to adapt to that term, so it's certainly possible to change the culture on a small scale one workplace at a time.
--

----------
George Hupka
Director/DP
Saskatoon, Canada
Listmum, Cinematography Mailing List

Barry Goyette
 

As I started out in the still photography world, “shooter”, to me, comes from the world of large catalog houses that often employ dozens of “photographers” most of whom function as assistants. The term “being hired as a shooter” meant you’d be the lead person in a 2-5 person crew that might include 1-2 assistants plus stylists (often at non-sustainable day rates, only slightly more than the rabble). The shooter directed the work and in larger houses there may be 5-10 crews working in one large partitioned space and thus the same number of “shooters”. This nickname also is used in still location work when more than one camera is being used at the same time, and being hired as a shooter…just means you’re someone who is taking pictures, not holding reflectors or carrying gear. To me it was always an internal thing…but over time I’d hear clients use it…occasionally to describe me…perhaps incorrectly. :-) Personally I’ve never used or experienced gender specific terms for Camera Operator, Cinematographer, Director of Photography, or photographer, and frankly…I don’t get upset about things much. Seeing as every film school drop-out with a RED is now considered a DoP, I’m not sure I’d get too excited one way or another about being referred to as such. “-). Just pay me. Call me what ever you want.

Barry Goyette
Stills Motion & Design
San Luis Obispo CA USA

On Mar 12, 2018, at 11:05 AM, George Hupka <georgehupka@...> wrote:

In my experience "shooters" is used a lot in television and particularly sports television, where nicknames are pretty much universal. 

Rachel Dunn
 


Although there are still issues to be addressed, progress is being made.

I was always a bit amused when an experienced grip would unconsciously blurt out "yes sir" when receiving instructions, because they had worked with so few female DP's.

Lately though, it has become far less common, so I guess that's an indication of progress.

That being said, words have power. 

A few years ago I moved to a smaller market for a couple of years and had a hard time landing gigs because I called myself a 'cinematographer' in a market that was only looking for 'videographers.'

I must admit to feeling a a fair bit of resistance to re-labeling myself. Perhaps because I realized how important it is to label the box people are trying to fit you in.

Is is a basic part of human survival to sort and categorize the world around us. It lets us know where we stand and what threats we may have to contend with.

Threats are quite different today than they were back when we were living in caves, and in many ways the language has become our primary defense against modern threats to survival.

So when someone trivializes my contribution by (unintentionally) mis-labeling me it can have a tangible impact on my rates and hence my survival.

After all, I would assume that the rates for a videographer are quite a bit less than those for a cinematographer - just as rates for women are generally less than they are for men - mostly due to historical trivialization and erasure of nearly all contributions by women.

Changing terminology is a good start, but the system that spawned those terms is very slow to change.   

Until a cure is found, I guess we will just have to continue treating the symptoms.

- Rachel D

      310-562-5779


On Mar 11, 2018, at 2:36 PM, Daniel Drasin <danieldrasin@...> wrote:

Gender and minority bias have been deeply rooted in most human cultures and languages for a very long time. But as we ourselves become less biased, our language will tend to evolve naturally. Meanwhile, for starters, we need to respect whatever terms people prefer to apply to themselves

Ladies and gentlemen, ;-) we, our languages and our favorite industry (OMG...) have a lot of catching-up to do. 

Brian Heller
 

Rachel Dunn wrote:


Although there are still issues to be addressed, progress is being made.

To that end, by way of amends,
the New York Times is now publishing the obituaries of women, who should have had their obituaries published, but who had been omitted by the Times. Or as the Times puts it, overlooked but not forgotten.

Article:


More relevant to the present discussion is one of film’s greatest pioneers and early auteur, Lois Webber, easily on a par with Eisenstein or D.W. Griffith.

A friend of mine who is something of a silent film historian, had never heard of her.  Lois Weber made somewhere between 200-400 films.  The few I have seen hold up very well by any standard.

From Wiki:


Brian Heller
IA 600 DP

Rachel Dunn
 

Exactly.

This very article shows that there is a very thin line between being overlooked and forgotten.

- Rachel D

      310-562-5779


On Mar 12, 2018, at 2:18 PM, Brian Heller <brianheller1@...> wrote:

Rachel Dunn wrote:


Although there are still issues to be addressed, progress is being made.

To that end, by way of amends,
the New York Times is now publishing the obituaries of women, who should have had their obituaries published, but who had been omitted by the Times. Or as the Times puts it, overlooked but not forgotten.

Article:


More relevant to the present discussion is one of film’s greatest pioneers and early auteur, Lois Webber, easily on a par with Eisenstein or D.W. Griffith.

A friend of mine who is something of a silent film historian, had never heard of her.  Lois Weber made somewhere between 200-400 films.  The few I have seen hold up very well by any standard.

From Wiki:


Brian Heller
IA 600 DP

Daniel Drasin
 

George Hupka writes: given the sensitivity around security these days, I've stopped using the word "shooting" and gone to "filming" (even when we're digital, sorry purists!) to avoid any unintentional confusion with overheard conversations...


Good policy, George. As for "filming" -- it's a lot like other words unavoidably adopted from earlier usages (even science and academia happily use prescientific terms like "gravity."). I now say "filming", too, without too much discomfort  .. and Holywood still makes "films" by whatever means.  In my semi-retirement I now confess to doing "videography" <gasp!> on the side, and find that, to clients at that level, a photographer is a photographer and camera is a camera... and nobody gives a rat's ass what goes into the camera -- only what comes out of it. Which IMHO is fair enough.

--------------------

Rachel Dunn writes: I would assume that the rates for a videographer are quite a bit less than those for a cinematographer - just as rates for women are generally less than they are for men - mostly due to historical trivialization and erasure of nearly all contributions by women.

Sadly, all too true. And to no purpose that I can see.

As for "videography" vs. "cinematography," there doesn't seem to be any actual hard line between the two -- it's all a matter of degree. I've used prosumer gear for cinematography and pro gear for videography, and in all cases simply done the best job I can with the available tools. With that said, budget IS often a good basis for separating the cinematographic sheep from the videographic goats.

A side note:  In Germanic-derived English, the term "man" derives from the Indo-European "manas" which is a gender-neutral term for "mind."  I'm not suggesting we literally adopt terms like "male man" and "female man" but perhaps a societal change in our understandings could at least soften this issue a bit at a very basic level and make it less contentious. After all, the root of the issue is how we feel about, and respect, each other, which is what gives meaning to our naming conventions, not so much the other way 'round.

Dan Drasin
Producer/DP
Marin County, CA

Daniel Drasin
 

Jen White writes:  Watch out for labeling women as “emotional” ...

Bingo!

Would anyone like to help me make a short film in which a bunch of good ole boys in a bar are grousing about women's being "so
 emotional".... and then we cut to the stands at an American football game, where the beer-soaked guys are on their feet going completely nuts, throwing stuff and flailing about in victory or defeat, while the women are quietly rolling their eyes. Then cut to Hollywoodesque scenes of typical male violence committed in anger, thoughtless aggressiveness, scorched-earth competitiveness, and so forth. .... ?

I once attended a remarkable couples workshop led by a positively brilliant married couple. Generally the husband addressed the men and the wife the women. At one point the wife said to the women: "Don't you understand that men feel more deeply than women?" Jaws dropped and there was stunned silence in the room. She went on to explain: "If you had any idea what men in our society routinely endure in their upbringing, in terms of having to suppress their emotions, you'd have a completely different relationship to your understanding of men. They feel more deeply because it's all *buried* more deeply. Men have little or no permission to express their feelings OTHER than in negative or competitive ways.

Personally, I suspect that men's exclusion of women from professional situations stems partly from some jealousy in this area. There are also the sheer, unconscious habits, peer-fear, etc., that tend to pass these kinds of things on from generation to generation.

In the purely creative arts this tends to be somewhat mitigated... but in any industry, where jobs are at stake, the competitiveness factor alone can be pretty brutal, and any lame excuse (sex, gender, race, culture...) will do when drawing lines of exclusion.

There's more, but I'm happy to leave it here. 

Dan Drasin
Producer/DP
Marin County, CA

Rachel Dunn
 

A bit off topic but I'll risk it:

Historically the purpose of erasing/trivializing women has been to reinforce stability in family and breeding practices by using economic pressure to enslave one gender in the service of another.

My mom was her husbands chattel (property) until the early 1990's.

With the rise of women's economic power in the last 100 years, and the move to more industrialized information civilization that requires less muscle, and more brains, we have seen dramatic shifts in family architecture, now that we rely more on emotional connection as opposed to a financial incentive to make a marriage last at all costs.

Of course there will be a backlash ( fundamentalist beliefs, DJT, sexism, anti-LGBT bigotry, sharia law)

Unequal pay, restrictive healthcare policies for women, lack of access to abortion or birth control, lack of access to higher level jobs or education, incarceration for a miscarriage, etc., are all efforts to perpetuate the enslavement of women within marriage, and insure their reproductive viability.

Paraphrased and bastardized from:

The next 100 Years: A Forecast for the 21st Century by George Friedman

A great book the gives a thorough analysis of the last 100 years and an well researched educated guess about the next 100...

Now back to cameras!

- Rachel D

310-562-5779
www.racheldunn.com


On Mar 12, 2018, at 3:21 PM, Daniel Drasin <danieldrasin@...> wrote:

just as rates for women are generally less than they are for men - mostly due to historical trivialization and erasure of nearly all contributions by women.

Sadly, all too true. And to no purpose that I can see.

Gavin Greenwalt
 

"then we cut to the stands at an American football game, where the beer-soaked guys are on their feet going completely nuts, throwing stuff and flailing about in victory or defeat, while the women are quietly rolling their eyes. Then cut to Hollywoodesque scenes of typical male violence committed in anger, thoughtless aggressiveness, scorched-earth competitiveness, and so forth. .... ?”


Women can’t get excited about sports?  Careful that stereotypes of genders intended to be used to support equality can themselves simply reinforce existing stereotypes.  Even the ‘negative’ stereotypes that you listed attributed to men can be simultaneously positive qualities: thoughtlessly aggressive (assertive even if it hurts people’s feelings), scorched-earth competiveness (willing to do what it takes and put in the hours to achieve greatness), anger (power).

It’s always helpful to keep in mind that aggressive, risk taking and scorched earth competitiveness are traits many people in top positions of power have used to attain that power.   Part of our power imbalances in society are because we kneecap women by disproportionately punishing them for open displays of ego driven ambition.   I was reading a little flyer on “how to be a gentleman” from the 1800s.  It was a great guide on how to fail in modern society and also essentially a guide on how women are expected to act society today. 

I wish a more altruistic attitude would be rewarded with power and fame.  But the fact is that Scorched Earth Competitiveness, aggression, anger and disregard for others is a pretty good strategy reaching the top.   The same behaviors that send many men to prison, when ‘constructively’ applied are also common in the most successful people.   So while it can feel safe to criticize men for stereotypical male behavior, it actually reinforces the social image that only men are ‘willing to do what needs to be done, no matter the cost’.

Gavin Greenwalt
VFX Supervisor
Seattle, WA

Robert Ruffo
 

Gavin, I could not disagree more.

The most valued D.P.s and other crew members are those who are able to cooperate and work well with others.  Even the most valued directors and writers are those who can play nice with and understand the needs of financing, schedules, actors etc. etc.  A strongman bully does not last long in production.  As such, typically feminine-associated traits are better assets than cartoons of masculinity on any set.

I also take offence at stereotypical cliches about Hollywood content.  Hollywood made American Beauty, Magnolia, Thelma and Louise and countless romantic comedies aimed at a market completely other than "beer-soaked football fans".  Hollywood makes films for those who wish to pay for them, and different films for different markets.  Football hooligans are only one small slice of that pie.

Hollywood is the waiter while all potential consumers sit at the tables in the restaurant.  The waiter will bring whatever they ask for.  Well, not all consumers.  If all you do is pirate films rather than paying for them Hollywood could care less what you think - why you will never see another Ferris Bueller or Sixteen Candles, because those films would simply be stolen today.  That's sad.  I wonder what a 2018 Ferris Bueller-like teen film would look like.   But I digress...

 
Robert Ruffo
Amber+Robert Media
www.AmberandRobertMedia.com
514.448.1526
323.201.2709
Beauty will save the world.
                                     (Dostoyevsky)



From: Gavin Greenwalt <im.thatoneguy@...>
To: cml-general@...
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [general] "Shooters" Debate on Glass Thread

"then we cut to the stands at an American football game, where the beer-soaked guys are on their feet going completely nuts, throwing stuff and flailing about in victory or defeat, while the women are quietly rolling their eyes. Then cut to Hollywoodesque scenes of typical male violence committed in anger, thoughtless aggressiveness, scorched-earth competitiveness, and so forth. .... ?”

Women can’t get excited about sports?  Careful that stereotypes of genders intended to be used to support equality can themselves simply reinforce existing stereotypes.  Even the ‘negative’ stereotypes that you listed attributed to men can be simultaneously positive qualities: thoughtlessly aggressive (assertive even if it hurts people’s feelings), scorched-earth competiveness (willing to do what it takes and put in the hours to achieve greatness), anger (power).

It’s always helpful to keep in mind that aggressive, risk taking and scorched earth competitiveness are traits many people in top positions of power have used to attain that power.   Part of our power imbalances in society are because we kneecap women by disproportionately punishing them for open displays of ego driven ambition.   I was reading a little flyer on “how to be a gentleman” from the 1800s.  It was a great guide on how to fail in modern society and also essentially a guide on how women are expected to act society today. 

I wish a more altruistic attitude would be rewarded with power and fame.  But the fact is that Scorched Earth Competitiveness, aggression, anger and disregard for others is a pretty good strategy reaching the top.   The same behaviors that send many men to prison, when ‘constructively’ applied are also common in the most successful people.   So while it can feel safe to criticize men for stereotypical male behavior, it actually reinforces the social image that only men are ‘willing to do what needs to be done, no matter the cost’.

Gavin Greenwalt
VFX Supervisor
Seattle, WA


Gavin Greenwalt
 

David Fincher and James Cameron I hear are real sweethearts on set.  Steve Jobs made lots of friends in the office. /s

Thankfully the age of the yellers seems to be coming to a close but from Harvey Weinstein to Michael Bay there is a reason the stereotype exists.   The Duffer Brothers can issue a statement saying “Due to the high-stress nature of production, tempers occasionally get frayed, and for that, we apologize” but a woman loses her cool and she’s judged substantially more harshly or labeled emotional.    The previous political season provides plenty examples of this as well.   A man has righteous anger and ambition but a female politician is shrill and conniving.

It’s not a question of “what works best” it’s a question of what any system of power is biased to promote.  There is an endless list of examples of people at the top who yelled, screamed and only looked out for #1 to get there, to hell with everyone else.    I would agree it’s often counter productive in a good leader but the concentration of such folk in leadership positions isn’t a coincidence.    https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/one-in-five-ceo-s-are-psychopaths-study-bond-university.html

Socially men are allowed to lean more toward selfishness and ambition, women are more severely punished when they exhibit the same traits.   Men are allowed to be volatile geniuses who are impossible to work with.   Women need to be peace makers and coalition builders. Of course we all know counter examples, but when we’re talking about demographic trends, patterns start to emerge that hint at underlying biases in who is more likely to become our leaders.

Gavin Greenwalt
VFX Supervisor
Seattle, WA


Bob Kertesz
 

 https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/one-in-five-ceo-s-are-psychopaths-study-bond-university.html

The other four just haven't been diagnosed yet.

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *

Tim Sassoon
 

On Mar 12, 2018, at 8:18 PM, Bob Kertesz <bob@...> wrote:

 https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/one-in-five-ceo-s-are-psychopaths-study-bond-university.html

The other four just haven't been diagnosed yet.

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *

Mark Sasahara
 

"The other four just haven't been diagnosed yet.

-Bob"


HA! LOL!

One in articular is ducking the Mayo Clinic at every turn.

Sorry. Had to go there.

Trying to come up with a script to voice my anger...

-Mark Sasahara DP, NYC


Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com


On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 11:18 PM, Bob Kertesz <bob@...> wrote:
 https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/one-in-five-ceo-s-are-psychopaths-study-bond-university.html

The other four just haven't been diagnosed yet.

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *

Patrick Johnson
 


Jen White writes: Watch out for labeling women as “emotional” ...

Bingo!
My experience has been people are all emotional to an extent but men tend to be irrational with immature behavior mixed in with their emotional issues. And a lot!

I personally would rather deal with a female production crew member - producer- DP - Director- 1st AD on down in times of crisis on set. They don't freak out and try to look "right" they tend to focus on resolving the issues. That's been my experience so obviously it's anecdotal but has been pretty consistent. While it may be stereotyping to say that, I definitely feel better when I see more women on the call sheet.

Patrick Johnson
Hold It Now! Films

Daniel Drasin
 

Women can’t get excited about sports? 

Of course they can, but that wasn't my point. Excitement is one thing, hypocrisy another.


Even the ‘negative’ stereotypes that you listed attributed to men can be simultaneously positive qualities: thoughtlessly aggressive (assertive even if it hurts people’s feelings), scorched-earth competiveness (willing to do what it takes and put in the hours to achieve greatness), anger (power). 

Energy, commitment, imagination, goal orientation and the ability to inspire others are legitimate, and quite sufficient, requirements for success. Hostility and anger? Not so much. Sooner or later unconscious behavior exacts a very high price.

Women excel at many things. But when it comes to being first-class jerks, it's men who tend to take the prize, hands down.

Dan Drasin
Producer/DP
Marin County, CA

Argyris_Theos_cml
 

Some years ago we saw a movie titled:
"Children of Men"
I am pretty sure it's meaning is:
"Children of Human Beings"
My understanding is that this was quite clear to all and to the best of my knowledge no complains aroused .
Discrimination is not derived by words, it is derived by people.
Intelligent people can discriminate while remaining politically correct
And of course flattening the field, like saying "all men discriminate against women" or "all Caucasians discriminate against Africans" carries to me exactly the same moral value as discrimination.
PS: my first wife was an AC and I have been employing feminine AC's since the 90's. To the best of my knowledge no one among them has ever complained against me.
Best Regards

Argyris Theos, gsc
DoP, Athens Greece,
theos@...
+306944725315
Skype Argyris.Theos
www.vimeo.com/argyristheos
via iPhone

13 Μαρ 2018, 12:21 π.μ., ο/η "Daniel Drasin" <danieldrasin@...> έγραψε:

A side note: In Germanic-derived English, the term "man" derives from the Indo-European "manas" which is a gender-neutral term for "mind." I'm not suggesting we literally adopt terms like "male man" and "female man" but perhaps a societal change in our understandings could at least soften this issue a bit at a very basic level and make it less contentious. After all, the root of the issue is how we feel about, and respect, each other, which is what gives meaning to our naming conventions, not so much the other way 'round.

Robert Ruffo
 

While I don't think typically male traits are always helpful on set, I also don't wish the women we hire on our sets were more like men.  I do wish some of the men were more like women.

I stand behind the idea that smooth respectful cooperation and team work are key to any successful production.  Not ego and bombast.  I would also venture that Michael Bay and the Duffer Brothers would be more successful than they are if they had the same talent but better temperaments.  Especially Michael Bay.  He is a worse guy than perhaps you know.  I'll leave it at that.

Harvey Weinstein had his whole castle crumble because he is so dysfunctional - so in the end being a psychopath is not the key to success, at least not lasting success.  At any rate, I'm glad I was not born that way.  Our company is built on love and genuine respect for all we work with.  I feel that's priceless - and likely it makes the shots better too.
 
Robert Ruffo
Amber+Robert Media
www.AmberandRobertMedia.com
514.448.1526
323.201.2709
Beauty will save the world.
                                     (Dostoyevsky)



From: Gavin Greenwalt <im.thatoneguy@...>
To: cml-general@...
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [general] "Shooters" Debate on Glass Thread

David Fincher and James Cameron I hear are real sweethearts on set.  Steve Jobs made lots of friends in the office. /s

Thankfully the age of the yellers seems to be coming to a close but from Harvey Weinstein to Michael Bay there is a reason the stereotype exists.   The Duffer Brothers can issue a statement saying “Due to the high-stress nature of production, tempers occasionally get frayed, and for that, we apologize” but a woman loses her cool and she’s judged substantially more harshly or labeled emotional.    The previous political season provides plenty examples of this as well.   A man has righteous anger and ambition but a female politician is shrill and conniving.

It’s not a question of “what works best” it’s a question of what any system of power is biased to promote.  There is an endless list of examples of people at the top who yelled, screamed and only looked out for #1 to get there, to hell with everyone else.    I would agree it’s often counter productive in a good leader but the concentration of such folk in leadership positions isn’t a coincidence.    https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/one-in-five-ceo-s-are-psychopaths-study-bond-university.html

Socially men are allowed to lean more toward selfishness and ambition, women are more severely punished when they exhibit the same traits.   Men are allowed to be volatile geniuses who are impossible to work with.   Women need to be peace makers and coalition builders. Of course we all know counter examples, but when we’re talking about demographic trends, patterns start to emerge that hint at underlying biases in who is more likely to become our leaders.

Gavin Greenwalt
VFX Supervisor
Seattle, WA




Jan Klier
 

This can manifest itself in many ways. Presumably I’ve been passed over for more than one job over the years, because people may assume I’m female based on my first name. I’m originally from Germany where Jan is a very common male first name. In the US it’s often a nickname/shorthand for Janice. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been called Ms. Jan Klier, the amount of junk mail I receive clearly gender-mistyped. I’ve also lost count of the times people mis-spelled and even called out my last name as ‘Killer’ without thinking for a minute that this is probably wrong. I’m a member in a fashion industry organization (from my previous work as photographer) that didn’t admit men as members until about 15 years ago. When they assemble gift bags for their big events the gifts are gender stereotyped even today. Working as a straight male in the fashion industry has been an interesting experience to say the least, a sign of different stereotypes at work. Ignorance and more so laziness galore.

And I just had a conversation with our tax accountant who pointed out a sexiest element in our tax code related to the fact that as the husband in the family I was making a fraction of our household income compared to my wife who is a senior marketing executive. That’s ok though, my more flexible work schedule and working from home many days has probably saved the life of at least two of our kids as they navigated the difficult adolescent years. 

The point being is that our society throughout prefers to judge, and judge on superficial labels rather than paying attention to the real people, their circumstances, their feelings, and how everyone comes across. The US government labels me as a permanent resident alien, without thought to how that comes across once you think about it.

And such is the judgement of ‘videographer’ vs. ‘cinematographer’ and as matter of fact ’shooter’ which is not just disliked for its ambiguity but also its value perception. There’s a distinct value difference. Yet, because we increasingly rely on digital media and non-personal interactions for building and finding connections, the ‘binning’ of everyone into categories has gotten worse rather than better. It’s easy to treat you negatively if you don’t look the other person in the eye but just type away somewhere. One of the reasons why our social media interactions have become so much more toxic.

But on the flip side the information age has also made it much harder to hide or swipe things under the rug and easier for minorities to connect and organize in numbers despite geography or other physical boundaries.

The worst offenders in this debate are the shrinking number of privileged people who have never been on the receiving end of binning and stereotyping, namely white men not otherwise attributed with any minority label. Once you’ve been binned in the wrong box, you learn that it’s no fun.

So there is hope that we can humanize things again more, and in the process become more respectful of each other. This discussion to wit. And then reflect on this shift and make gripping films about it.

Jan Klier
DP NYC

On Mar 12, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Rachel Dunn <rachel@...> wrote:

A few years ago I moved to a smaller market for a couple of years and had a hard time landing gigs because I called myself a 'cinematographer' in a market that was only looking for 'videographers.'

Franz
 

On 13 Mar 2018, at 09:26, Robert Ruffo via Cml.News <robert_ruffo=yahoo.com@...> wrote:

While I don't think typically male traits are always helpful on set, I also don't wish the women we hire on our sets were more like men.  I do wish some of the men were more like women.

I was very tempted to ask to elaborate on that but then thought… uhmmm...
Had to check this is still CML though… :-))))
Franz
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