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Illya Friedman, Roy Wagner and professional behavior (LISTMUMS PLEASE) WAS New Cinema Lens Company

Jay Holben
 

Wow  --

This turned mighty ugly with absolutely no cause.

I stepped away from CML for many years as my career focused on directing and producing and moved away from cinematography (just can't ever get away, though!) - but as one of the pioneering members of this extraordinary forum that Geoff has created I can say that this kid of behavior would not have been tolerated in the early days. This forum is run on professionalism and mutual respect. On the sharing of information and the selfless help of fellow filmmakers. It is NOT a place where people dog-pile on someone for using a particular word.

I feel compelled to speak up on Illya's behalf here. His choice of vernacular aside - it was a casual word that many of us may not particularly like - but it was directed at no one specifically. In fact, I imagine that it was intended to be more inclusive as some "camera people" who don't shoot films, TV, commercials, music videos, etc. don't identify as cinematographers or directors of photography - I've known a dozen high-end sports cameramen who call themselves "shooters" not DPs. Illya is one of the good guys and has done more for the support of CINEMATOGRAPHERS, DIRECTORS OF PHOTOGRAPHY, CAMERA PEOPLE, CAMERA ASSISTANTS, FILMMAKERS and the like than many of you could even dream of. There's no reason to vilify him here - he has spent his lifetime in support of the art and science of this business and the individuals who dedicate their lives to it and should be honored for his contributions.

As for the comment against Roy? Appalling to say the least. Roy is also a highly respected member of the community and he should be granted the high respect that he deserves. I request that our listmums review this conversation and take action against those violating the CML terms and code of conduct.

Illya - if I can be of help to you, please let me know. You did neglect to post your contact info on the initial post so people may struggle to respond.

Roy - we've known each other many years - you know you have my respect and admiration. Keep on keeping on.

If anyone has issue with my admonition here - feel free to contact me directly: jay@...

All the best,
Jay Holben
Director/Producer
Co-Chair Lens Committee, ASC Motion Imaging Technology Council
ASC Associate Member
Adakin Productions
Los Angeles, CA
www.jayholben.com
Instagram @jayholben

Mark H. Weingartner
 

Listmum again…

nothing to see here - move along..

no further analysis required, no further discussion warranted

one long-time well respected member used a term
another long time well respected member said that this term did not apply to him

and then we get a number of other emails turning turning this into a facebook-like interaction.
This is not facebook.

We have rules of conduct - you are all free to review them, and your participation on cml is predicated on your accepting them.

Done now.

back to discussions about glass


weingartner
DP
LA
etc

circle_of_confusion@...
 

Thanks Jay,

>In fact, I imagine that it was intended to be more inclusive as some "camera people" who don't shoot films, TV, commercials, music videos, etc. don't identify as cinematographers or directors of photography

You nailed it exactly. 

I personally have never found the term "shooter" a pejorative, especially when used to describe a vast group of people who all make their living in the camera crafts but do not prescribe to any one individual job title or gender.  It was precisely this level of inclusion I wished to foster with my invitation.  

While Roy may be sensitive and took offense to the term "shooter" I did not take any personal offense to his comment. 

Roy and I have disagreed on many topics over the years of the CML and elsewhere- including previous topics as inconsequential as vernacular. 

We are both big boys, we are certainly capable of disagreeing and being friendly enough to maintain a Facebook connection to prove it.  Unless I was drunk, Roy and I sat 24" away from each other at the ASC Awards, as we were both guests of the same company and believe we both had a very pleasant evening.

Roy is not the only one to make a pithy comment without the intention of hijacking an entire thread.  I hope that everyone else need not waste any more zeros and ones on such a debate.  

>you did neglect to post your contact info on the initial post so people may struggle to respond. 

CML once showed the email address of the poster, I did not realize that had changed with the new system.  I can be reached at illya @ HotRodCameras . com  (spaces added intentionally to avoid my email being harvested by crawlers and bots)


Illya Friedman
President
Hot Rod Cameras
Burbank, CA
www.hotrodcameras.com


Geoff Boyle
 

Nothing has changed Jay,

 

I’ve been shooting tests and not on CML for the week and I’m horrified at what is going on.

 

It’s something I was worried about when we made it much easier to participate via smartphone.

 

I will be merciless to offenders. Keep it civil guys or be evicted.

 

https://www.cinematography.net/conditions_of_membership.htm

 

 

Cheers

 

Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS

Cinematographer

Zoetermeer

www.gboyle.co.uk

+31 (0) 637 155 076

 

From: cml-glass@... <cml-glass@...> On Behalf Of Jay Holben
Sent: 08 March 2018 19:56
To: cml-glass@...
Subject: Re: [Glass] Illya Friedman, Roy Wagner and professional behavior (LISTMUMS PLEASE) WAS New Cinema Lens Company

 

Wow  --

This turned mighty ugly with absolutely no cause.

I stepped away from CML for many years as my career focused on directing and producing and moved away from cinematography (just can't ever get away, though!) - but as one of the pioneering members of this extraordinary forum that Geoff has created I can say that this kid of behavior would not have been tolerated in the early days. This forum is run on professionalism and mutual respect. On the sharing of information and the selfless help of fellow filmmakers. It is NOT a place where people dog-pile on someone for using a particular word.

 

Michael Most
 

On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:56 AM, Jay Holben <jay@...> wrote:

Roy is also a highly respected member of the community and he should be granted the high respect that he deserves.
Not to mention one of my favorite people. Always look forward to any chance we get to meet up and talk, even when it’s only every couple of years. I’ve learned more about the relationship of storytelling, art, and technology from Roy than almost anyone else I’ve known over the years.

Mike Most
On Location Services Director (but once upon a time Roy’s colorist………and for a lot longer, his friend…..)
Technicolor
Los Angeles, CA.