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Neo Baltar and Neo Super Baltar revival?
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Neo Baltar and Neo Super Baltar revival?

Roy H. Wagner ASC
 

I’ve never yet met an actor or actress who wants a sharper picture.

Roy H. Wagner ASC
Director of Photography
Honorary Fellow Royal Photographic Society
AMPAS, SMPTE
(310) 614-8362
rhwasc@...

Feli di Giorgio
 

Hello Brian

Thank you very much for joining in on this thread and sharing this information.

Over the years I have sometimes wondered what it would take to resurrect some of these vintage lenses, including the Baltars and Super Baltars. I am glad to hear that Mr Peck and you were able to rescue the design plans from being lost to history.

I think we are operating in interesting times.

On one hand cameras are resolving ever greater detail, while the best optics have reached a level of perfection that was unheard of just 10 years ago.

On the other hand and perhaps as a reacting to this perfection we are seeing great demand for vintage glass or glass with 'character' to make these perfect images look less perfect. Maybe there is something to the old saying that 'perfection is boring’.

In some ways we are trapped in a paradox.

We have companies putting out 8k cameras and threatening that there are more pixels to come and at the same time Cooke resurrecting the Speed Pancro primes that date back to nearly the dawn of the industry. Lenses that 10 or 15 years ago were ending up in a landfill or as a paperweight on someones desk are now commanding sky-high prices.

Who knows what’s next?

I’m pretty sure Zeiss could make a bundle if they reissued the Zeiss Super Speeds mk III… Maybe they could call them the mk IV?


In any case I very much look forward to seeing your lenses when they are completed and thanks for making this a reality.



All the best


Feli di Giorgio


VFX / Bay Area

_______________________________________________
Feli di Giorgio - feli2@... - www.felidigiorgio.com




On Mar 11, 2018, at 1:59 AM, J. Brian Caldwell <brianc1959@...> wrote:

"But I am very curious about this revival by Brian Caldwell and Caldwell Photographic, Inc. and just how close they will be to the originals.

http://www.caldwell-photographic.com/Products.html

I believe Zero Optik is also involved in this project. They currently rehouse Baltars.

http://zerooptik.com


I haven’t been able to find a lot of information on this project, so I was curious if anyone had further details."

My biggest advantage in this project is that I have the original optical prescriptions and blueprints used to make the original Baltars and Super Baltars. These were rescued from certain death in a landfill by a quick-thinking B&L optical engineer named Bill Peck when the company got out of the photo and cine lens business. At the time I was developing a large lens design database that Bill was interested in for his new company, so I had the great fortune of trading him a copy of my software for 6 big notebooks full of blueprints and a large box full index cards with handwritten optical prescriptions.

For years I kept all of that unique vintage optical data on my shelf, not really knowing what to do with it. But when Bill passed away a couple of years ago it dawned on me that I should try to re-manufacture some of the old lenses to their exact original formula.

So, to your question "how close will they be to the originals" I would answer "as close as humanly possible". One hurdle of course is that B&L melted their own glass rather than buying it from established suppliers like Schott. The reason for this is that the U.S. needed a domestic supplier during WWII. In most cases, the difference between B&L glass and modern glass types is so small that it can be ignored. In other cases there is a tiny difference that I had to adjust for. For example, the front element of the original 20mm Super Balter used glass with and index of 1.804 and a dispersion (Abbe number) of 41.8. The closest modern glass has an index of 1.7995 and a dispersion of 42.2, which is just barely outside the required manufacturing tolerances. So, what I did was to carefully characterize the aberration balance of the original design, and then make tiny changes to a few select lens curvatures to regain the exact original performance. Most of this was accomplished by changing the lens curvature of one or more cemented interfaces (i.e. "buried" surfaces). It may be of some interest here that modern high index glasses tend to match the old B&L glasses very well. This is due in part to the use of titanium instead of lead to achieve precisely matching index and dispersion values. On the other hand some of the low index glasses turned out to be more challenging, but not so much that the original aberration balance couldn't be precisely matched.

Some of the earlier comments regarding the blackening of barrel parts and lens edges were pretty interesting. The original blackening spec for the Super Baltars was simply "Lacquer Edges With PL-2", where presumably PL-2 is a gloss black paint that is no longer available - at least I can't find it. However, we do basically paint the lens edges with glossy black paint in the old fashioned way - by holding a small paintbrush against the ground edges while the lens is spinning on a spindle. The coatings on the polished lens surfaces - which are more likely to contribute to the character of the lenses - is identical to the original spec: "All lens coatings shall be middle purple. 500-600 mu." In other words, the coatings are just single layer MgF2 adjusted to give a purplish reflection.

Whether all of my efforts will result in truly accurate reproductions of the originals remains to be seen during testing, hopefully sometime next month.


J. Brian Caldwell
Caldwell Photographic Inc.




-----Original Message-----
From: Feli di Giorgio <feli2@...>
To: cml-glass <cml-glass@...>
Cc: Feli di Giorgio <feli2@...>
Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2018 6:25 pm
Subject: Re: [glass] Neo Baltar and Neo Super Baltar revival?

On Mar 8, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Roy H. Wagner ASC <rhwasc@...> wrote:

I’m sure it was. Truthfully the mtf readings through the glass is quite good. The Super Baltars were raced into production because of the mirrored reflex cameras. The old Baltars wouldn’t fit.
My tests with the Baltars and The Godfather Super Baltars were about the same.
As long as you don’t stop down past f/4.0 you should be good unless you’ve got new barrels.
Roy H. Wagner ASC

My set is still in the original barrels. They were only cleaned and lubricated by a highly regarded shop in Los Angeles.
I did not see an enormous optical difference after they were serviced, except now they focus smoothly.



But I am very curious about this revival by Brian Caldwell and Caldwell Photographic, Inc. and just how close they will be to the originals.

http://www.caldwell-photographic.com/Products.html

I believe Zero Optik is also involved in this project. They currently rehouse Baltars.

http://zerooptik.com


I haven’t been able to find a lot of information on this project, so I was curious if anyone had further details.


Thanks,

Feli di Giorgio

VFX / Bay Area

_______________________________________________
Feli di Giorgio - feli2@... - www.felidigiorgio.com

J. Brian Caldwell
 

"But I am very curious about this revival by Brian Caldwell and Caldwell Photographic, Inc. and just how close they will be to the originals. 

http://www.caldwell-photographic.com/Products.html

I believe Zero Optik is also involved in this project. They currently rehouse Baltars.



I haven’t been able to find a lot of information on this project, so I was curious if anyone had further details."

My biggest advantage in this project is that I have the original optical prescriptions and blueprints used to make the original Baltars and Super Baltars.  These were rescued from certain death in a landfill by a quick-thinking B&L optical engineer named Bill Peck when the company got out of the photo and cine lens business.  At the time I was developing a large lens design database that Bill was interested in for his new company, so I had the great fortune of trading him a copy of my software for 6 big notebooks full of blueprints and a large box full index cards with handwritten optical prescriptions.  

For years I kept all of that unique vintage optical data on my shelf, not really knowing what to do with it.  But when Bill passed away a couple of years ago it dawned on me that I should try to re-manufacture some of the old lenses to their exact original formula.

So, to your question "how close will they be to the originals" I would answer "as close as humanly possible".  One hurdle of course is that B&L melted their own glass rather than buying it from established suppliers like Schott.  The reason for this is that the U.S. needed a domestic supplier during WWII.  In most cases, the difference between B&L glass and modern glass types is so small that it can be ignored.  In other cases there is a tiny difference that I had to adjust for.  For example, the front element of the original 20mm Super Balter used glass with and index of 1.804 and a dispersion (Abbe number) of 41.8.  The closest modern glass has an index of 1.7995 and a dispersion of 42.2, which is just barely outside the required manufacturing tolerances.  So, what I did was to carefully characterize the aberration balance of the original design, and then make tiny changes to a few select lens curvatures to regain the exact original performance.  Most of this was accomplished by changing the lens curvature of one or more cemented interfaces (i.e. "buried" surfaces).  It may be of some interest here that modern high index glasses tend to match the old B&L glasses very well.  This is due in part to the use of titanium instead of lead to achieve precisely matching index and dispersion values.  On the other hand some of the low index glasses turned out to be more challenging, but not so much that the original aberration balance couldn't be precisely matched.

Some of the earlier comments regarding the blackening of barrel parts and lens edges were pretty interesting.  The original blackening spec for the Super Baltars was simply "Lacquer Edges With PL-2", where presumably  PL-2 is a gloss black paint that is no longer available - at least I can't find it.  However, we do basically paint the lens edges with glossy black paint in the old fashioned way - by holding a small paintbrush against the ground edges while the lens is spinning on a spindle.  The coatings on the polished lens surfaces - which are more likely to contribute to the character of the lenses - is identical to the original spec:  "All lens coatings shall be middle purple.  500-600 mu."  In other words, the coatings are just single layer MgF2 adjusted to give a purplish reflection.

Whether all of my efforts will result in truly accurate reproductions of the originals remains to be seen during testing, hopefully sometime next month.


J. Brian Caldwell
Caldwell Photographic Inc.

 


-----Original Message-----
From: Feli di Giorgio <feli2@...>
To: cml-glass <cml-glass@...>
Cc: Feli di Giorgio <feli2@...>
Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2018 6:25 pm
Subject: Re: [glass] Neo Baltar and Neo Super Baltar revival?

On Mar 8, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Roy H. Wagner ASC <rhwasc@...> wrote:

I’m sure it was. Truthfully the mtf readings through the glass is quite good. The Super Baltars were raced into production because of the mirrored reflex cameras. The old Baltars wouldn’t fit.
My tests with the Baltars and The Godfather Super Baltars were about the same. 
As long as you don’t stop down past f/4.0 you should be good unless you’ve got new barrels. 
Roy H. Wagner ASC

My set is still in the original barrels. They were only cleaned and lubricated by a highly regarded shop in Los Angeles. 
I did not see an enormous optical difference after they were serviced, except now they focus smoothly.



But I am very curious about this revival by Brian Caldwell and Caldwell Photographic, Inc. and just how close they will be to the originals. 

http://www.caldwell-photographic.com/Products.html

I believe Zero Optik is also involved in this project. They currently rehouse Baltars.



I haven’t been able to find a lot of information on this project, so I was curious if anyone had further details.


Thanks, 

Feli di Giorgio

VFX / Bay Area

_______________________________________________
Feli di Giorgio - feli2@... - www.felidigiorgio.com

maxp3d
 

“Gat” is the rate which all points around the center bokeh...... Shorter FL increase gat with wider open stops.;~).... optical alchemists

Max

I know who you are Max but there may be people out there who don't :-) Please sign name job & location as in the rules...

On Mar 9, 2018, at 21:06, Adam Wilt <adam@...> wrote:

What is “gat”?

Adam Wilt
 

OK, I give up.  What is “gat”?

“Gat” is a technical measure of how far up the “wazoo” the coma is.

Adam Wilt, ducking and running…
technical services: consulting / coding / camerawork
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)

Tim Sassoon
 

I’ve decided to give it a try. I’ve got some very cheap M39 LTM lenses to mess around with.

Tim Sassoon
Venice, CA




On Mar 8, 2018, at 6:17 PM, Matthew Schroeder <tunnelvision@...> wrote:

That said, the barrel must have an effect i hadn't considered before.  it really is an interesting idea to design light bounce into the barrel of a modern lens.  especially if it's something that can be adjusted.

Roy H. Wagner ASC
 

I had Ian at Panavision build screw on rings for the Primos. He hated it. They were incredible. Just tried to find a set last year for a project. They’ve disappeared.
Roy

Roy H. Wagner ASC
Director of Photography
Honorary Fellow Royal Photographic Society
AMPAS, SMPTE
(310) 614-8362
rhwasc@...

Jay Holben
 

On 3/8/2018 6:17 PM, Matthew Schroeder wrote:
That said, the barrel must have an effect i hadn't considered before. 
it really is an interesting idea to design light bounce into the barrel
of a modern lens.  especially if it's something that can be adjusted.

*****************

Matthew -

Absolutely. Panavision's "Extreme Flare" set of standard speeds not only
removes the AR coating, but also removed the black anodizing inside the
lens for more fun flare!


Jay Holben
Director/Producer
Co-Chair Lens Committee, ASC Motion Imaging Technology Council
Adakin Productions
Los Angeles, CA
www.jayholben.com
Instagram @jayholben

Jay Holben
 

On 3/9/2018 9:08 AM, Rodrigo Lizana Lamarca wrote:

I know nothing about optics really, but I´d be curious as to why no lens
company like P+S, TLS, etc, don´t come up with rear elements with
signature looks for modern lenses.    Rear elements are fixed on the
lens most of the time (unlike focus elements) so no mechanical mods
needed.  Replacing the rear element is such an easy task, so why not
have a vintage rear element available ?.   Or an anamorphic rear element ?.

*****************

Rodrigo -

While this might be somewhat helpful - the rear element of a lens has
very little overall effect on the look of the image - especially in
terms of what we all associate as the "vintage" look. It's the elements
in front of the entrance pupil that really have a strong effect -
especially glass composition and coatings. Swapping out a rear element -
in many cases - would have no effect except to possibly add some
additional aberrations that the final element was correcting. Swapping
out a front element, on the other hand, can have massive effect on the
overall look of the image. When you're looking at stripped coating or
"uncoated" lenses - it's the front element that has been stripped and
the overall result can be extremely dramatic. In short - not really a
lot of use in swapping out rear elements.

With the Angenieux rear anamorphic - what you're taking about there is
an anamorphic teleconverter put at the back of the lens (acting just
like a regular 2x teleconverter, but only in one direction). Using that
is just like using any other teleconverter. In this case it's stretching
out the image vertically (that's the way rear anamorphic adapters work -
inverse of front anamorphic which compress horizontally). Adding glass
behind a lens can (usually does) introduce aberrations that aren't
visible in the lens by itself - but don't quite have the effect on the
image that a front filter/converter/alteration might have.

Hope that helps!

Jay Holben
Director/Producer
Co-Chair Lens Committee, ASC Motion Imaging Technology Council
Adakin Productions
Los Angeles, CA
www.jayholben.com
Instagram @jayholben

Jay Holben
 

With regard to the barrels of lenses - their treatment do, definitely,
have an effect on the look the lens creates. This has to do with
reflection of light - whether that be oblique angles of light directly
reflecting off the internal metal surfaces or light that reflects off a
glass surface within the lens and strikes the inner barrel and returns
through the glass. This is why lens manufactures black-coat the inside
of the lens barrels. Sometimes through anodizing, sometimes through
other means - even velvet-like flocking. This is also why many lens
manufacturers paint the edges of each lens element black - to reduce
reflection of light. Reflection of light within the lens is what creates
flare and as much as cinematographers may like some flares - for a lens
designer all flare is a degradation of the image and lens performance -
especially in terms of contrast and resolution. Veiling glare is one of
the worst offenders in this area and internal reflection off the barrel
can contribute to veiling glare.

What has a bigger effect on the overall look is the coating on the lens
- anti-reflection thin-film coatings have done more for photography and
advancement of lens technology than any other single technological marvel.

The Bausch & Lomb Baltar lenses, which were introduced in 1940, were
some of the very first lenses in history to receive anti-reflective
coatings. Although Zeiss' Smakula patented thin-film AR coatings in 1935
- they weren't commercially available for a few years (practical
technology advancements and war efforts stalled the technology's
release). At the same time Smakula was working with coatings in Germany,
several other companies were racing to achieve the same technology -
including Dr. Strong of California Institute of Technology who worked
with the Vard Mechanical Laboratory to develop the Vard Opticoate
process. Gregg Toland, ASC was one of the early adopters and utilized
Vard-coated lenses on Citizen Kane (1941). Two other companies were the
George Eastman Research Laboratory of Physics at MIT and RCA.

Early coatings - such as the Baltars received - were just single-layer
coatings for eliminating green reflection (mid spectrum and highest
human sensitivity at about 550nm).

There are different generations of the Baltar lenses - generally
designated by colored dots on the lens face - yellow and purple. Some
generations were silver barreled, some were black. Some, allegedly, had
multi-layer coatings (haven't been able to confirm this yet). Baltars
were behind the Bausch & Lomb CinemaScope adapters for the early
CinemaScope films.

When the Super Baltars were released in 1965, the Baltars were
discontinued. Super Baltars were multi-coated and featured more advanced
glass (including some focal lengths, specifically the 20mm, that were
thoriated). It was the Super Baltars that Gordon Willis, ASC famously
used on The Godfather. Super Baltars were also marked in f and T stops -
a practice that was tested and refined in the late 1940s and early 50s.

As mentioned earlier, Brian Caldwell (Caldwell photographic) has
embarked on a project to resurrect the look of the original Baltar
lenses with his Neo Baltar series - all new glass but mimicking the look
of the original lenses. He claims to replicate the original optical
design and through painstaking research mimic the glass composition and
coatings to match the original look. Caldwell is only offering the
lenses as a lens head and iris only - you need an optomechanical housing
to actually use the lens. They recommend Zero Optik, but there are
others who offer Baltar rehousings that are said to work with the Neo
Baltars. His lenses are T2.5.

All the best,

Jay Holben
Director/Producer
Co-Chair Lens Committee, ASC Motion Imaging Technology Council
Adakin Productions
Los Angeles, CA
www.jayholben.com
Instagram @jayholben

Ryan O'Hara
 

In response to the rear element response earlier, Leica summicron-c's have an optical flat within a screw-on cone assembly behind the rear element. Lenses are calibrated for the refraction index of the flat glass. I always expected them (sonderoptic) or a 3rd party to make interesting rear filter options yet they never came....

Ryan O'Hara
cameraman/AC
Los Angeles

Roy H. Wagner ASC
 

I’m not an optical engineer but have contributed often to many lens and filter designs. That being said I never saw two sets of Baltar lenses that were the same. That’s why many of us clung to a specific set. The Gordon Willis set was always missing the 35mm. When photographing “The Godfather” he had his assistant test a number of lenses, settling on a Cooke for replacement. As for the 25mm most studios wouldn’t allow us to use the lens. because it was not sharp and had spheric aberrations that took you out of the scene.
I don’t know if I hated Baltars because the studios insisted that we use it but I fell in love with Cooke lenses. Most of the cameramen who shot Technicolor discovered the Cookes and never turned back.
The lens barrel affects the contrast dramatically. When I shot the Pilot of “Quantum Leap” I used Panavision Ultra Primes wide open because I didn’t have to use as much filtration. SupaFrosts were horrible and yet what many of us used. Jack Bonnura, from Tiffen, came to the set and asked what do you need. I handed him the SupaFrost and said, “a replacement for this that will not destroy my assistants. Anything longer than a 50mm with those plastic filters destroyed focus.
Roy
Roy H. Wagner ASC’hfRPS
Director of Photography
(310) 614-8362

Ryan O'Hara
 

Duclos modified a set of Leica Summicron C's for The Camera House, and among many things they did was modify the edge paint. By changing coatings, edge paint, barrel color/material, and other things, I do think it's very possible to give modern optics some of the character. I would assume Baltar lens design in general is more 'simple' than some modern lenses, considering aspherical elements are much more common today than they were in the past (if at all back then) along with other considerations in technological and design progress. https://www.ducloslenses.com/pages/leica-classic-crons

I always have joked about using that new 'world's blackest black' nano-tube paint in lenses to get supreme contrast but it seems people want lower con glass atm. 

I think it's completely possible to modify modern glass to get vintage look, but it won't be the exact same as say beloved K35's, Cooke Speed Panchro's or Baltars... too many variables. But you can get in the neighborhood. I have uncoated front and rear elements for my Cooke Mini S4's and while the flares certainly increase in susceptibility like vintage glass, it's not a direct substitution for Speed Panchros... just an option to make more modern glass have more character. 

Ryan O'Hara
Camera Dude who ac's and occasionally is a cinematographer
Only replied to CML twice before and never gone through. Wish me luck on this
Los Angeles, CA

Rodrigo Lizana Lamarca
 

I know nothing about optics really, but I´d be curious as to why no lens company like P+S, TLS, etc, don´t come up with rear elements with signature looks for modern lenses.    Rear elements are fixed on the lens most of the time (unlike focus elements) so no mechanical mods needed.  Replacing the rear element is such an easy task, so why not have a vintage rear element available ?.   Or an anamorphic rear element ?.

Angenieux does that with the Optimo anamorphic that can be converted to spherical so it must be possible.   The Master Anamorphics front an rear element can be replaced for the Zeiss MA flare set.  


Maybe it needed to be though and plan on the design table but it surely sounds like a great idea.   Of course the image quality will be diminished when modifying the original design, but that´s the goal of going vintage isn´t it ?.   Character from flaws instead of lifeless image from perfection.

Regards




Rodrigo Lizana Lamarca
Pixine Ltda.
Santiago
Chile




On Mar 9, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Antonio Cisneros <apcisneros@...> wrote:

I know Bradford Young did this with a set of ultra primes for a look closer to K35s. 

Feli di Giorgio
 




On Mar 8, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Matthew Duclos <Matthew@...> wrote:

Been working with Brian for some time now. I’m extremely excited about this project among others. 
_._,_._,_

That’s phenomenal news. Really looking forward to seeing this come to fruition.


Feli di Giorgio

VFX / Bay Area

_______________________________________________
Feli di Giorgio - feli2@... - www.felidigiorgio.com



Feli di Giorgio
 




On Mar 8, 2018, at 6:17 PM, Matthew Schroeder <tunnelvision@...> wrote:


Feli, i doubt your lenses suffered.  Best dumpster find ever, i'd say.  

Matthew Schroeder
NYC based dp


I have to give credit to late the Mike Ferra (Ferraflex) and Norm Brown for the find. Apparently Norm got hold of them and several Mitchell packages when a studio (Fox?) was cleaning out their old camera department and everything was headed for the landfill. This was back in the mid to late 90’s. I ended up buying one of the Mitchell cameras and Mike ‘threw’ in the lenses “Here kid, I’ll throw in a box of lenses, so you got something to shoot with!”. So, this was about 20 years ago, when a lot of that old gear was considered worthless. But I’ve been grateful to both Mike and Norm ever since. I was a young, dumb kid back then and they taught me a lot about cameras.


Feli di Giorgio

VFX / Bay Area


_______________________________________________
Feli di Giorgio - feli2@... - www.felidigiorgio.com

Antonio Cisneros
 

This might be a stupid question but if you had to recreate the “baltars look” but with different glass (let’s just say Cooke S4 for argument sake) how would one do that? I realize the proper way is to get a proper set but when shooting in third world countries the glass selection is strictly to modern lenses. I’m currently in India and the glass upkeep here is the Wild West. After projecting our set of hawks we discovered fungus in them, no joke.

So back to the question; what filtration (front of back), retuning the mechanics , and/or changing the coating of the lens would you have to perform to get that look with modern glass?

I know Bradford Young did this with a set of ultra primes for a look closer to K35s.

Best

Antonio Cisneros
Dp
Currently in India but missing LA very much.

Rodrigo Lizana Lamarca
 


Or P+S Technik in Germany.   Yes I understood the same thing from the brochure.   And those rehousing are very good, but not cheap by any means.   

Regards




Rodrigo Lizana Lamarca
Pixine Ltda.
Santiago
Chile




On Mar 9, 2018, at 3:57 AM, Ted Hayash <ted.hayash@...> wrote:

any buyer would have to send them to a third party like ZeroOptik or TLS to have them housed. 

Ted Hayash
 

When reading the brochure it appears that only the optical elements and the iris and other inner workings are being reproduced, and any buyer would have to send them to a third party like ZeroOptik or TLS to have them housed. 

Ted Hayash
Cinematographer 
Los Angeles

 Ted Hayash
Ted Hayash
Director of Photography 
www.tedhayash.com


On March 9, 2018 at 2:25 GMT, Feli di Giorgio <feli2@...> wrote:

On Mar 8, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Roy H. Wagner ASC <rhwasc@...> wrote:

I’m sure it was. Truthfully the mtf readings through the glass is quite good. The Super Baltars were raced into production because of the mirrored reflex cameras. The old Baltars wouldn’t fit.
My tests with the Baltars and The Godfather Super Baltars were about the same. 
As long as you don’t stop down past f/4.0 you should be good unless you’ve got new barrels. 
Roy H. Wagner ASC

My set is still in the original barrels. They were only cleaned and lubricated by a highly regarded shop in Los Angeles. 
I did not see an enormous optical difference after they were serviced, except now they focus smoothly.



But I am very curious about this revival by Brian Caldwell and Caldwell Photographic, Inc. and just how close they will be to the originals. 

http://www.caldwell-photographic.com/Products.html

I believe Zero Optik is also involved in this project. They currently rehouse Baltars.



I haven’t been able to find a lot of information on this project, so I was curious if anyone had further details.


Thanks, 

Feli di Giorgio

VFX / Bay Area

_______________________________________________
Feli di Giorgio - feli2@... - www.felidigiorgio.com

Matthew Schroeder
 

I just looked at my Super Baltar set, curiosity struck by this thread.  

Indeed the "creamy" look of the super baltar's is what makes them my favorite vintage/character glass.  It renders highlights and skin smooth while distinct lines remain crisp and dark.  Walks a tightrope in this sense, seeming sometimes to be both soft and sharp.   

Interesting about their build/design is the variation from one lens to the next.  The optical group of the 50mm is compact, comparable in size to a cooke speed panchro, while the 25mm has a front element so large it's barely able to be accomodate a 110mm front ring.  Looking inside the set you can find plenty of dark metallic surfaces that must kick some light around.  But this also varies considerably from lens to lens.  So I figure the look must be due largely to the optics since the signature of the lenses is found across the set.  

That said, the barrel must have an effect i hadn't considered before.  it really is an interesting idea to design light bounce into the barrel of a modern lens.  especially if it's something that can be adjusted.

Feli, i doubt your lenses suffered.  Best dumpster find ever, i'd say.  

Matthew Schroeder
NYC based dp

 



On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Tim Sassoon via Cml.News <tsassoon=aol.com@...> wrote:
Internal flare, in other words, from barrel paint that wasn’t as dark as it could be, that was knocked out beyond f/4,5.

So, in theory, then, the exact lens formula was probably less important to the look, and one could “Baltar-ize” a set of CP.2’s, for instance, by taking them apart and repainting the insides with some shade of gray?

I wonder if there’s a critical point, like the lens center, where the effect is at a maximum, that could be modulated with an internal sleeve element that covers/reveals a white-ish reflective band according to an external ring setting, to introduce more or less flare into the scene like a kind of “flashing” as desired? In my mind I’m making it pretty bright so that the effect is visible at deeper f/stops if one wanted.


Tim Sassoon
Venice, CA




On Mar 8, 2018, at 3:51 PM, Roy H. Wagner ASC <rhwasc@...> wrote:

Indeed the lower coatings on the barrels help to create the creamy quality and gat everyone loves. It’s somewhat the same principle as diffusion. 
In order to create the creamy quality you must be below T4.0. That’s why we always exposed no lower than f/4.5.