Topics

Hard lighting

Adrian Wolfson
 

I'm want to hire a light to give a very sharp edge to a back lit whisky bottle to give a sundial effect and have a ver clean shadow outline on the table.

What would you suggest?

I thought a source 4 or a Dedo with projector but I'm interested to know what you guys would use.

Here's an image showing the effect.



Thanks

Adrian Wolfson
DP
London

www.adrianwolfson.com

Geoff Boyle
 

K5600 Alpha with clear glass 

Gorgeous light

Geoff
Fan of very hard lights

Paul Mcilvaine
 

Another option you could look at is any Arri X with a black reflector

Sent by
Paul McIlvaine
LA/gaffer

On Sep 20, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:

K5600 Alpha with clear glass 

Gorgeous light

Geoff
Fan of very hard lights

Thomas Townend
 

Aha... beautiful sunlight... there really ISN’T a substitute. 

However, your best bet would be an Arri X-Light. 
They come in 1.2, 2.5 & 4kw

Clear glass, and a reflector curved in one direction only. 
They can be fitted with a jet black reflector too which sharpens the shadow cast considerably since it’s the reflected light from the back of the lamp that increases the diameter of the source. 
The pay-off is loss of stop. 

Backing the lamp as far away from the subject as space will allow sharpens the shadow too. But then you fall foul of the inverse square law. 

If there’s nothing moving in frame then of course you can always dial down your frame rate to compensate for black reflectors and lamps a 1/4 mile away. 

Does the sundial effect move in shot?

I have done this in camera (shadows moving around an architectural model) with an X-light on a skate dolly on a circular track.  One can get a revolution and a half before you completely foul up with cable. 
In that instance the shot was designed to be a purely aerial perspective so to avoid the shadow of whatever was suspending the camera over the model passing through frame I had the model inverted and hung from the studio ceiling. The camera sat directly below it on the studio floor looking straight up - hence no arm reaching over and messing up a full 360 degree revolution of the lamp. 

Tom Townend,
Cinematographer/London. 

Sent from my fingers to your eyes

On 20 Sep 2018, at 17:37, Adrian Wolfson <iam@...> wrote:

I'm want to hire a light to give a very sharp edge to a back lit whisky bottle to give a sundial effect and have a ver clean shadow outline on the table.

What would you suggest?

I thought a source 4 or a Dedo with projector but I'm interested to know what you guys would use.

Here's an image showing the effect.

<sundail shadow.jpg>

Thanks

Adrian Wolfson
DP
London

www.adrianwolfson.com

Jonathon Sendall
 

Just the other day I had to test a bulb in the Joker 800 so I took the glass case off the and had the unit bare without reflector (I was fixing the Leko attachment to it). Switched it on and it worked fine but noticed the shadow it created was very sharp. Logged that in my head for another day. I presume the Joker 1600 would be the same.

Jonathon Sendall
DOP, London UK
Instagram
Jonathon Sendall
mob. 07813261793
email. jpsendall@...


Leonard Levy
 

Am I dumb or missing something - or are all these answers jumping the gun a bit?
Seems to me its hard to make any suggestions without knowing a little more information:

How many foot-candles are needed?
Tungsten or Daylight matter?
What else is in the shot or the shots around it?
How far away does the light need to be?
Does the light have to move for a time-lapse sundial effect?

If you don't need all that much light & tungsten was OK wouldn't a simple quartz fresnel with lens removed (perhaps even the reflector)  do the job ?
HMI without the lens  is dangerous UV isn't it?

Leonard Levy, DP
San Rafael, CA






Thomas Townend
 

On 20 Sep 2018, at 20:20, Leonard Levy <nsll@...> wrote:

HMI without the lens is dangerous UV isn't it?
It certainly is. Which is why most lamps won’t operate with the lens open as a safety measure.

Worth bearing in mind that shadow quality (hard Vs soft) is purely a function of how close the light is to a theoretical ‘point’ source.

Hence an 18kw HMI is a ‘soft’ source of your subject is mere inches away from the lamp face and a 20x20’ diffusion frame is a ‘hard’ source if it’s the only illumination and positioned 1 mile from the subject.

The smaller the filament (or arc) inside a bulb the closer it starts to being a point source. A clear glass front to the lamp and ideally a blacked out reflector ensures there’s no magnification of those filament dimensions or any ‘softening’ of the shadows cast.

The common fallacy about candlelight being ‘soft’ is the one that gets me. Since a candle flame is generally no taller than a 1/2” it’s a bloody hard light source, as evidenced by the shadows it casts.
It is however a ‘subdued’ light source, which I guess leads to the layman’s confusing interpretation.

The problem with a small filament close the the subject is that the light spreading out from the point source creates shadows that are radial - rather than parallel; as one would expect sunlight to be.

The payoff is how bright can a bulb be to countermand the light loss from placing it far enough away to ensure that shadows are both hard edged AND near parallel.

And if the light source then has to describe a circular path in camera what’s the largest diameter track you can put it on? The radius of that circle determines the maximum possible lamp to subject distance. Which will be considerably smaller than just wheeling the lamp and the subject to opposite ends of a 100’ stage. So the bulb filament/arc has better be small to begin with.

How much actual exposure is the least issue - unless of course the shot requires 24/25fps sync shooting or higher frame rates.

HMI would get my vote just because of the bang to size ratio. A 1.2kw HMI Arri X-light is physically very small but will give a reasonable shooting stop at say 25’... Just.

Tom Townend
Cinematographer/London.

Leonard Levy
 

Tom Townsend: 
"The problem with a small filament close the the subject is that the light spreading out from the point source creates shadows that are radial - rather than parallel; as one would expect sunlight to be. "

Ha - That's a good point that does complicate  what could be pretty simple, though only the OP would know how critical it would be in this application.  Still would want more info.  You could always start by trying an Inkie nearby :) 

Leonard Levy DP
San Rafael, CA







Matthew Clark
 

Geoff suggested the K5600 Alpha.  I can’t wait to give that a try.  

I thought a source 4 or a Dedo with projector but I'm interested to know what you guys would use.

My concern about the Source 4 or Dedo would chromatic aberrations from the fixture.  You might see the color issues in the edges of the shadow which always turns me off.  My go to would be a big fresnel like a 5k or 10k (or bigger) depending on the location and existing conditions.  With a big fixture, you could easily light it with a single source judiciously using bounce to fill as necessary.  

Matthew J. Clark
Director/DP 
Seattle, WA
www.StraightEIGHTFilms.com

Tommaso Alvisi
 

Hey Adrian, both mentioned method would work if you need to also contain the light.

If you don't need the control and just looking for the extremely hard light, even a bare bulb would work perfectly!

Alphas from K5600 can do that (with no Fresnel and reflector), if you need the punch and required safety on set too. ;-)

Cheers!
T.

Tommaso Alvisi // Cinematographer
info@... // +39 347 1002000

Steven Gray
 

Dedo 400 hmi with projector lens is a good option also. 

Sent from my I phone

Steven Gray
Director of Photography
London

_._,_._,_

Andy Cook
 

Ellipsoidal. Joleko if you want daylight. Nothing is more sharp. 
Best, 
Andy Cook
Chicagogaffer.com
708-476-5811




On Sep 20, 2018, at 1:10 PM, Paul Mcilvaine via Cml.News <PMacSix=aol.com@...> wrote:

Another option you could look at is any Arri X with a black reflector

Sent by
Paul McIlvaine
LA/gaffer

On Sep 20, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:

K5600 Alpha with clear glass 

Gorgeous light

Geoff
Fan of very hard lights

Michel Bouquerel
 

M18 in a mirror far away. 

Mitch
Gaffer France 

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 20 sept. 2018 à 20:10, Paul Mcilvaine via Cml.News <PMacSix=aol.com@...> a écrit :

Another option you could look at is any Arri X with a black reflector

Sent by
Paul McIlvaine
LA/gaffer

On Sep 20, 2018, at 10:37 AM, Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:

K5600 Alpha with clear glass 

Gorgeous light

Geoff
Fan of very hard lights

Ralph Linhardt
 

I use a K5600 Alpha 1600. You could use any size 800,1600.4k,9k 18k  I have used them all for sharp shadows.


Ralph Linhardt,SDG
President
Theophany Films, Inc.
71 Sprucewood
Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
949.533.1972 Office/Cell
www.ralphlinhardt.com
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On Sep 20, 2018, at 9:37 AM, Adrian Wolfson <iam@...> wrote:

I'm want to hire a light to give a very sharp edge to a back lit whisky bottle to give a sundial effect and have a ver clean shadow outline on the table.

What would you suggest?

I thought a source 4 or a Dedo with projector but I'm interested to know what you guys would use.

Here's an image showing the effect.

<sundail shadow.jpg>

Thanks

Adrian Wolfson
DP
London

www.adrianwolfson.com <Screen Shot 2018_09_20 at 17.34.14.png>

Thomas Diseth FNF
 

In the train of thoughts regarding light sources, your comment Thomas Townend is the best I have read so far in this thread.   An "open" HMI being dangerous?  Did we not have that discussion a few months ago with a guy from India?  It is so dangerous, it is not even to consider.  And why should an open HMI particularly create hard shadows?  What is the thought behind that?  Can you who suggested that please explain?
If I recall correctly, the issue here is a product shot of a glass with whiskey, backlit with a hard source? (I happened to delete the messages in the thread).  Is it high-speed?  Like ice cubes hitting the fluid? Or is it just a "beauty"-shot of the glass?  Is there a background to consider?
If high speed ice cubes: 5 to 12K tungsten, fully flooded.  Hard shadows, ok for most high speed.  Just a hard back light?  Anything will do, as long as it has a fair lens opening (covering the object).  Must be fresnell or a Dedolight in flood position.  Flood position is important to get the most parallel beams.   The optimum is the sun, but that is for people living in California.  Then we talk hard shadows with whatever tools we have at hand.  Or read Thomas Townend`s comment. (That is a lighting-school).

To Leonard Levy:
You just do not get it. An inky will not work.  You need a light source preferably larger than the object, in flood position to get as close as possible to parallel beams = sun light = hard shadows.

Thomas Diseth FNF


Den 20.09.2018 21:45, skrev Thomas Townend via Cml.News:

On 20 Sep 2018, at 20:20, Leonard Levy <nsll@...> wrote:

HMI without the lens is dangerous UV isn't it?
It certainly is. Which is why most lamps won’t operate with the lens open as a safety measure.

Worth bearing in mind that shadow quality (hard Vs soft) is purely a function of how close the light is to a theoretical ‘point’ source.

Hence an 18kw HMI is a ‘soft’ source of your subject is mere inches away from the lamp face and a 20x20’ diffusion frame is a ‘hard’ source if it’s the only illumination and positioned 1 mile from the subject.

The smaller the filament (or arc) inside a bulb the closer it starts to being a point source. A clear glass front to the lamp and ideally a blacked out reflector ensures there’s no magnification of those filament dimensions or any ‘softening’ of the shadows cast.

The common fallacy about candlelight being ‘soft’ is the one that gets me. Since a candle flame is generally no taller than a 1/2” it’s a bloody hard light source, as evidenced by the shadows it casts.
It is however a ‘subdued’ light source, which I guess leads to the layman’s confusing interpretation.

The problem with a small filament close the the subject is that the light spreading out from the point source creates shadows that are radial - rather than parallel; as one would expect sunlight to be.

The payoff is how bright can a bulb be to countermand the light loss from placing it far enough away to ensure that shadows are both hard edged AND near parallel.

And if the light source then has to describe a circular path in camera what’s the largest diameter track you can put it on? The radius of that circle determines the maximum possible lamp to subject distance. Which will be considerably smaller than just wheeling the lamp and the subject to opposite ends of a 100’ stage. So the bulb filament/arc has better be small to begin with.

How much actual exposure is the least issue - unless of course the shot requires 24/25fps sync shooting or higher frame rates.

HMI would get my vote just because of the bang to size ratio. A 1.2kw HMI Arri X-light is physically very small but will give a reasonable shooting stop at say 25’... Just.

Tom Townend
Cinematographer/London.


--
Deluxefilm AS, Wedel Jarlsberg vei 36, 1358 JAR (Filmparken) Norway. Tel.: +47 91 14 05 30. Alt i lys- og kamerarelatert utstyr til profesjonell film, video/TV og stillfoto bransje. - Dedolight - Quasar Science LED - Chimera - FVlight LED - Tilta professional camera accessories - Quartzcolor - - Bestboy - Innovative dimmers/Wireless DMX – Manfrotto - Schneider Optics kamera filter – - Cartoni Camera Support - Matthews Studio (grip) Equipment - DoP Choice grids/soft bokser - Tiffen kamera filtere - LiteGear LED -

Jeff Kreines
 

I suspect Roy Wagner would recommend arcs. 

Jeff Kreines

Sent from iPhone. 

On Sep 20, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Thomas Diseth FNF <thomas@...> wrote:

In the train of thoughts regarding light sources, your comment Thomas Townend is the best I have read so far in this thread.   An "open" HMI being dangerous?  Did we not have that discussion a few months ago with a guy from India?  It is so dangerous, it is not even to consider.  And why should an open HMI particularly create hard shadows?  What is the thought behind that?  Can you who suggested that please explain?
If I recall correctly, the issue here is a product shot of a glass with whiskey, backlit with a hard source? (I happened to delete the messages in the thread).  Is it high-speed?  Like ice cubes hitting the fluid? Or is it just a "beauty"-shot of the glass?  Is there a background to consider?
If high speed ice cubes: 5 to 12K tungsten, fully flooded.  Hard shadows, ok for most high speed.  Just a hard back light?  Anything will do, as long as it has a fair lens opening (covering the object).  Must be fresnell or a Dedolight in flood position.  Flood position is important to get the most parallel beams.   The optimum is the sun, but that is for people living in California.  Then we talk hard shadows with whatever tools we have at hand.  Or read Thomas Townend`s comment. (That is a lighting-school).

To Leonard Levy:
You just do not get it. An inky will not work.  You need a light source preferably larger than the object, in flood position to get as close as possible to parallel beams = sun light = hard shadows.

Thomas Diseth FNF


Den 20.09.2018 21:45, skrev Thomas Townend via Cml.News:
On 20 Sep 2018, at 20:20, Leonard Levy <nsll@...> wrote:

HMI without the lens is dangerous UV isn't it?
It certainly is. Which is why most lamps won’t operate with the lens open as a safety measure.

Worth bearing in mind that shadow quality (hard Vs soft) is purely a function of how close the light is to a theoretical ‘point’ source.

Hence an 18kw HMI is a ‘soft’ source of your subject is mere inches away from the lamp face and a 20x20’ diffusion frame is a ‘hard’ source if it’s the only illumination and positioned 1 mile from the subject.

The smaller the filament (or arc) inside a bulb the closer it starts to being a point source. A clear glass front to the lamp and ideally a blacked out reflector ensures there’s no magnification of those filament dimensions or any ‘softening’ of the shadows cast.

The common fallacy about candlelight being ‘soft’ is the one that gets me. Since a candle flame is generally no taller than a 1/2” it’s a bloody hard light source, as evidenced by the shadows it casts.
It is however a ‘subdued’ light source, which I guess leads to the layman’s confusing interpretation.

The problem with a small filament close the the subject is that the light spreading out from the point source creates shadows that are radial - rather than parallel; as one would expect sunlight to be.

The payoff is how bright can a bulb be to countermand the light loss from placing it far enough away to ensure that shadows are both hard edged AND near parallel.

And if the light source then has to describe a circular path in camera what’s the largest diameter track you can put it on? The radius of that circle determines the maximum possible lamp to subject distance. Which will be considerably smaller than just wheeling the lamp and the subject to opposite ends of a 100’ stage. So the bulb filament/arc has better be small to begin with.

How much actual exposure is the least issue - unless of course the shot requires 24/25fps sync shooting or higher frame rates.

HMI would get my vote just because of the bang to size ratio. A 1.2kw HMI Arri X-light is physically very small but will give a reasonable shooting stop at say 25’... Just.

Tom Townend
Cinematographer/London.


--
Deluxefilm AS, Wedel Jarlsberg vei 36, 1358 JAR (Filmparken) Norway. Tel.: +47 91 14 05 30. Alt i lys- og kamerarelatert utstyr til profesjonell film, video/TV og stillfoto bransje. - Dedolight - Quasar Science LED - Chimera - FVlight LED - Tilta professional camera accessories - Quartzcolor - - Bestboy - Innovative dimmers/Wireless DMX – Manfrotto - Schneider Optics kamera filter – - Cartoni Camera Support - Matthews Studio (grip) Equipment - DoP Choice grids/soft bokser - Tiffen kamera filtere - LiteGear LED -

Brian Heller
 

He’s not the only one.  

When you need a point light source, why not use the point light source.

That’s the point, isn’t it?

B


On Sep 20, 2018, at 7:04 PM, Jeff Kreines <jeff@...> wrote:

I suspect Roy Wagner would recommend arcs. 

Jeff Kreines

Sent from iPhone. 

On Sep 20, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Thomas Diseth FNF <thomas@...> wrote:

In the train of thoughts regarding light sources, your comment Thomas Townend is the best I have read so far in this thread.   An "open" HMI being dangerous?  Did we not have that discussion a few months ago with a guy from India?  It is so dangerous, it is not even to consider.  And why should an open HMI particularly create hard shadows?  What is the thought behind that?  Can you who suggested that please explain?
If I recall correctly, the issue here is a product shot of a glass with whiskey, backlit with a hard source? (I happened to delete the messages in the thread).  Is it high-speed?  Like ice cubes hitting the fluid? Or is it just a "beauty"-shot of the glass?  Is there a background to consider?
If high speed ice cubes: 5 to 12K tungsten, fully flooded.  Hard shadows, ok for most high speed.  Just a hard back light?  Anything will do, as long as it has a fair lens opening (covering the object).  Must be fresnell or a Dedolight in flood position.  Flood position is important to get the most parallel beams.   The optimum is the sun, but that is for people living in California.  Then we talk hard shadows with whatever tools we have at hand.  Or read Thomas Townend`s comment. (That is a lighting-school).

To Leonard Levy:
You just do not get it. An inky will not work.  You need a light source preferably larger than the object, in flood position to get as close as possible to parallel beams = sun light = hard shadows.

Thomas Diseth FNF


Den 20.09.2018 21:45, skrev Thomas Townend via Cml.News:
On 20 Sep 2018, at 20:20, Leonard Levy <nsll@...> wrote:

HMI without the lens is dangerous UV isn't it?
It certainly is. Which is why most lamps won’t operate with the lens open as a safety measure.

Worth bearing in mind that shadow quality (hard Vs soft) is purely a function of how close the light is to a theoretical ‘point’ source.

Hence an 18kw HMI is a ‘soft’ source of your subject is mere inches away from the lamp face and a 20x20’ diffusion frame is a ‘hard’ source if it’s the only illumination and positioned 1 mile from the subject.

The smaller the filament (or arc) inside a bulb the closer it starts to being a point source. A clear glass front to the lamp and ideally a blacked out reflector ensures there’s no magnification of those filament dimensions or any ‘softening’ of the shadows cast.

The common fallacy about candlelight being ‘soft’ is the one that gets me. Since a candle flame is generally no taller than a 1/2” it’s a bloody hard light source, as evidenced by the shadows it casts.
It is however a ‘subdued’ light source, which I guess leads to the layman’s confusing interpretation.

The problem with a small filament close the the subject is that the light spreading out from the point source creates shadows that are radial - rather than parallel; as one would expect sunlight to be.

The payoff is how bright can a bulb be to countermand the light loss from placing it far enough away to ensure that shadows are both hard edged AND near parallel.

And if the light source then has to describe a circular path in camera what’s the largest diameter track you can put it on? The radius of that circle determines the maximum possible lamp to subject distance. Which will be considerably smaller than just wheeling the lamp and the subject to opposite ends of a 100’ stage. So the bulb filament/arc has better be small to begin with.

How much actual exposure is the least issue - unless of course the shot requires 24/25fps sync shooting or higher frame rates.

HMI would get my vote just because of the bang to size ratio. A 1.2kw HMI Arri X-light is physically very small but will give a reasonable shooting stop at say 25’... Just.

Tom Townend
Cinematographer/London.


--
Deluxefilm AS, Wedel Jarlsberg vei 36, 1358 JAR (Filmparken) Norway. Tel.: +47 91 14 05 30. Alt i lys- og kamerarelatert utstyr til profesjonell film, video/TV og stillfoto bransje. - Dedolight - Quasar Science LED - Chimera - FVlight LED - Tilta professional camera accessories - Quartzcolor - - Bestboy - Innovative dimmers/Wireless DMX – Manfrotto - Schneider Optics kamera filter – - Cartoni Camera Support - Matthews Studio (grip) Equipment - DoP Choice grids/soft bokser - Tiffen kamera filtere - LiteGear LED -

Adrian Wolfson
 

Hi Everyone

Thank you everyone for your great wisdom. You guys are an amazing wealth of information. Beats going to film school!

I've known about the Profoto flash attachment called a Hardbox that is a black box but didn't realise you could do this with other continuous fixtures which is great as that is the best hard edge I've seen in photography... apart from the sun of course.

Got to test all these options now so I'm going to get in touch with my local rental company and see what they've got and test the shadows from as many of your ideas as possible.

To answer your questions. Its a still life shot of a whisky bottle with a couple of glass next to it at the angle you have seen in the picture. The idea is to move the light, not the camera, to create the motion of the sun moving around the objects, creating a moving shadow. Not a lot of movement, maybe go from 5-7pm. Not sure if ice will be moving in glasses. The studio will be approx 60-70'' wide. I would love to use The Light Bridge CRLS system to add extra distance to the light travel but I guess I could use any mirror reflector. It's not a high speed shoot. It will be 25 or 50 fps.

Many thanks

Adrian Wolfson
DP
London

Thomas Diseth FNF
 

An arc is basically the same thing.  A large lightsource , larger than the object in this case, fully flooded = "sunlight". Hard shadows.
Thomas Diseth FNF


Den 21.09.2018 01:04, skrev Jeff Kreines:

I suspect Roy Wagner would recommend arcs. 

Jeff Kreines

Sent from iPhone. 

On Sep 20, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Thomas Diseth FNF <thomas@...> wrote:

In the train of thoughts regarding light sources, your comment Thomas Townend is the best I have read so far in this thread.   An "open" HMI being dangerous?  Did we not have that discussion a few months ago with a guy from India?  It is so dangerous, it is not even to consider.  And why should an open HMI particularly create hard shadows?  What is the thought behind that?  Can you who suggested that please explain?
If I recall correctly, the issue here is a product shot of a glass with whiskey, backlit with a hard source? (I happened to delete the messages in the thread).  Is it high-speed?  Like ice cubes hitting the fluid? Or is it just a "beauty"-shot of the glass?  Is there a background to consider?
If high speed ice cubes: 5 to 12K tungsten, fully flooded.  Hard shadows, ok for most high speed.  Just a hard back light?  Anything will do, as long as it has a fair lens opening (covering the object).  Must be fresnell or a Dedolight in flood position.  Flood position is important to get the most parallel beams.   The optimum is the sun, but that is for people living in California.  Then we talk hard shadows with whatever tools we have at hand.  Or read Thomas Townend`s comment. (That is a lighting-school).

To Leonard Levy:
You just do not get it. An inky will not work.  You need a light source preferably larger than the object, in flood position to get as close as possible to parallel beams = sun light = hard shadows.

Thomas Diseth FNF


Den 20.09.2018 21:45, skrev Thomas Townend via Cml.News:
On 20 Sep 2018, at 20:20, Leonard Levy <nsll@...> wrote:

HMI without the lens is dangerous UV isn't it?
It certainly is. Which is why most lamps won’t operate with the lens open as a safety measure.

Worth bearing in mind that shadow quality (hard Vs soft) is purely a function of how close the light is to a theoretical ‘point’ source.

Hence an 18kw HMI is a ‘soft’ source of your subject is mere inches away from the lamp face and a 20x20’ diffusion frame is a ‘hard’ source if it’s the only illumination and positioned 1 mile from the subject.

The smaller the filament (or arc) inside a bulb the closer it starts to being a point source. A clear glass front to the lamp and ideally a blacked out reflector ensures there’s no magnification of those filament dimensions or any ‘softening’ of the shadows cast.

The common fallacy about candlelight being ‘soft’ is the one that gets me. Since a candle flame is generally no taller than a 1/2” it’s a bloody hard light source, as evidenced by the shadows it casts.
It is however a ‘subdued’ light source, which I guess leads to the layman’s confusing interpretation.

The problem with a small filament close the the subject is that the light spreading out from the point source creates shadows that are radial - rather than parallel; as one would expect sunlight to be.

The payoff is how bright can a bulb be to countermand the light loss from placing it far enough away to ensure that shadows are both hard edged AND near parallel.

And if the light source then has to describe a circular path in camera what’s the largest diameter track you can put it on? The radius of that circle determines the maximum possible lamp to subject distance. Which will be considerably smaller than just wheeling the lamp and the subject to opposite ends of a 100’ stage. So the bulb filament/arc has better be small to begin with.

How much actual exposure is the least issue - unless of course the shot requires 24/25fps sync shooting or higher frame rates.

HMI would get my vote just because of the bang to size ratio. A 1.2kw HMI Arri X-light is physically very small but will give a reasonable shooting stop at say 25’... Just.

Tom Townend
Cinematographer/London.


--
Deluxefilm AS, Wedel Jarlsberg vei 36, 1358 JAR (Filmparken) Norway. Tel.: +47 91 14 05 30. Alt i lys- og kamerarelatert utstyr til profesjonell film, video/TV og stillfoto bransje. - Dedolight - Quasar Science LED - Chimera - FVlight LED - Tilta professional camera accessories - Quartzcolor - - Bestboy - Innovative dimmers/Wireless DMX – Manfrotto - Schneider Optics kamera filter – - Cartoni Camera Support - Matthews Studio (grip) Equipment - DoP Choice grids/soft bokser - Tiffen kamera filtere - LiteGear LED -


--
Deluxefilm AS, Wedel Jarlsberg vei 36, 1358 JAR (Filmparken) Norway. Tel.: +47 91 14 05 30. Alt i lys- og kamerarelatert utstyr til profesjonell film, video/TV og stillfoto bransje. - Dedolight - Quasar Science LED - Chimera - FVlight LED - Tilta professional camera accessories - Quartzcolor - - Bestboy - Innovative dimmers/Wireless DMX – Manfrotto - Schneider Optics kamera filter – - Cartoni Camera Support - Matthews Studio (grip) Equipment - DoP Choice grids/soft bokser - Tiffen kamera filtere - LiteGear LED -

Paul Hicks
 

Any small Fresnel, say a 650, with the lens swung out of the way and the light coming  straight off the filament.  A par 16 ‘ birdie’ would probably suffice.  I also occasionally use par 36 pinspots for hard lighting effects as well. They have a very long throw. 
Paul Hicks
DP 
Melbourne. 


On 21 Sep 2018, at 3:37 am, Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:

K5600 Alpha with clear glass 

Gorgeous light

Geoff
Fan of very hard lights