Topics

LED option for HMI output

cleverson cassanelli
 

I heard that Mole Richardson Led 900w and 1600w have HMI 1200 and 2500W similar output.
Well, i have my own LED kit with two Select 20 and 30, one Litemat4+, one Sola4+ and one Intellytech Canon 165W
Now i looking for this high output option to enjoy my led family

Is this Mole Led's good option?
are the photometrics for real? Mole dosent show a complete info about it.
they said its 1000fc at 10feet/flood and 2000fc 10feet/spot.

instead Mole, there is another reliable option for this output LED demand?
i am not looking for 2K tung similar this time.

appreciate your senior wisdom fellas

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/BR

Roger Martinez CAMERA DPT
 

Hi Cleverson,

I recommend you the VELVETLight LED panels - https://www.velvetlight.tv -. They have a wide range, can be autonomous with batteries.
For example:

The VELVET Power 2  has the characteristic of concentrated intensity from a broad source, delivering 4000 lux / 370 fc from 190W of power. It brings VELVET LED technology to a fixture muscular enough for exterior work. Uses include:

 

Tom Kirby
 

Cleverson, I'd recommend you check out our LED light kits. Our fixtures were designed as direct HMI replacements, with comparable punch and color. You can check them out at http://nila.com with full photometrics and other specs available on each fixtures page accessed by clicking the fixture pics at the bottom of the home page. Thanks!

Phil Badger
 

I’ve used the 1600w Mold “Tenor”. It’s a nice light, but is surprisingly heavy and it’s not small. Also it doesn’t spot in as much as an old-school fresnel. But it certainly has its uses. In places where power is in short supply it’s a lot of light for the wattage. For daylight units, my opinion is that HMI’s are far more compact and, I think, versatile, if power and heat aren’t issues. (The beam from the “Tenor” is surprisingly cool)

Phil Badger
Lighting guy
Currently in Portland OR,USA

Daniel Colmenares
 

The Mole Fresnel LEDs as well as the Arri L Series are the only LED lights that I'm aware of that actual behave like more traditional tungsten/HMI lights. They also share the same shortcomings as most LEDs when scaled up (weight and size) and the Arri's disappoint in output (though some models do RGB their biggest light is the L10 and its only a 400W draw, where is the 1600W L Series Arri? or better yet an 1800W version!).

The velvet is a nice light that I've used in the past, but its a softlight and similar to your kino select 30s or a skypanel and would not be suitable to long throws or direct beams. Great light, well built.

The Nila lights are pretty powerful and are a good "brute" light, but due to their design can end up creating multiple shadows. This is somewhat mitigated by their "holographic lenses" but you can't focus them and it still doesn't negate the multiple shadow scenario. You'll be hard pressed to get a clean cut shadow out of them. And again their biggest model (800W draw) weights 69lbs! For general ambiance, fill, or to punch through some diffusion they are great lights though, but an HMI can do all that and also cut a razor sharp shadow for you when needed.

Honestly? In my opinion nothing can touch the versatility of an HMI at the moment. The M18 for its pure output, and the Joker series for their various modifiers which make them an amazing light (bug-a-beam, kurve, big eye fresnel, soft tube, etc)

By the way some quick back of the napkin numbers (all lux numbers at full spot or brightest mode for the light I could find): 
An M18 weights 27lbs and has an output of 22,950 Lux at 7 Meters
A Joker 1600 weights in at a svelte 15lbs and has an output of 40,050 Lux at 10 Meters "raw" and 6,300 Lux at 10 Meters with a Medium lens 
A Mole 1600 Tener weights 70lbs and has an output of 42,000 Lux at 3 Meters which could be extrapolated to roughly 10,000 Lux at 6 Meters following the inverse square law 
(very rough estimate, Arri doesn't give photometrics under 7M for the M18 but K5600 does and to compare it to a Joker 1600 at 3M gives off 70,000 Lux with a medium lens)
An Arri L10 DT weighs 45 lbs and has an output of 3,000 Lux at 7 Meters
A Nila Arina weights 69 lbs and has an output of 32,290 Lux at 7 Meters "raw" (without any lenses), and around 14,000 Lux with the tightest 10d holographic lens.
A Velvet Power 2x2 Spot ( what seemed to be the most powerful light I could find on their website) weights 35lbs and delivers 7500 Lux at 6 Meters 

Cheers,

Daniel Colmenares 
Cinematographer, Los Angeles
323.618.0314


Mark Sasahara
 

I have used Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs for Phantom jobs and tabletops. They look really nice, have lots of output and combine nicely with daylight. I believe they are equivalent to a 2.5K HMI, 7,454FC @ 10 ft. They use holographic lenses for beam control and can have a wired remote control box.


The Punch is a little bigger than a 2K tungsten Fresnel, but not terribly heavy. They are not crisp like a fresnel, but look pretty good, with decent contrast, but a little bit diffuse.

Best,

-Mark

Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:26 AM cleverson cassanelli <ccassanelli@...> wrote:
I heard that Mole Richardson Led 900w and 1600w have HMI 1200 and 2500W similar output.
Well, i have my own LED kit with two Select 20 and 30, one Litemat4+, one Sola4+ and one Intellytech Canon 165W
Now i looking for this high output option to enjoy my led family

Is this Mole Led's good option?
are the photometrics for real? Mole dosent show a complete info about it.
they said its 1000fc at 10feet/flood and 2000fc 10feet/spot.

instead Mole, there is another reliable option for this output LED demand?
i am not looking for 2K tung similar this time.

appreciate your senior wisdom fellas

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/BR

cleverson cassanelli
 

appreciate everybody
till now just Daniel Colmenares has catched my point
i looking for, or trying to understand about HMI equivalent in LED. to buy, not to rent.
its not just about lux. its about cut/shape and difusing light, about weight and about energy draw.
HMI its a weapon we can shot whatever we want to.

maybe still not having availeble equivalent LED source as HMI. Agreed ARRI M18 and Joker are far best option for small, but quality production. i keep going rental houses to get this lights every month.

the major companys who is promissing lots of comparative products must thinking about that cinematographers and gaffers
still not buying this comercial aproach. we just test every light source and discuss with ourselves
what works or not.

till now i get no opinion about Mole 900W led (still looking for). if is reliable as HMI 1200 substitute.
Mole 1600W Led i already understand its to heavy for the intention.

With this led lights/kit i can work even alone or with one gaffer.
Brasil its a huge place. we need to travel a lot. its not easy to carry  lots of 2K Tung, HMI,  plus butterfly or chimera's and flags to everywhere.
worst, i am not getting young to still runing sandbags and heavy tripods day after day.

My best choice far was to buy Litemat4+
If i have nothing or no one to lit. The litemat i can afford by myself keeping a great source.
I already tested Litemat and Kino Select in travels to Argentina and Uruguay. Or by car trough Sao Paulo to Rio de Janeiro (400km)
i could do that in just two people. for comercial jobs for Hotel's and Food Company.
Was pretty easy. with a very good quality of light. just soft light. but, that what i was needing.

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/Brasil



Em qua, 7 de nov de 2018 às 22:16, Mark Sasahara <marksasahara@...> escreveu:

I have used Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs for Phantom jobs and tabletops. They look really nice, have lots of output and combine nicely with daylight. I believe they are equivalent to a 2.5K HMI, 7,454FC @ 10 ft. They use holographic lenses for beam control and can have a wired remote control box.


The Punch is a little bigger than a 2K tungsten Fresnel, but not terribly heavy. They are not crisp like a fresnel, but look pretty good, with decent contrast, but a little bit diffuse.

Best,

-Mark

Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:26 AM cleverson cassanelli <ccassanelli@...> wrote:
I heard that Mole Richardson Led 900w and 1600w have HMI 1200 and 2500W similar output.
Well, i have my own LED kit with two Select 20 and 30, one Litemat4+, one Sola4+ and one Intellytech Canon 165W
Now i looking for this high output option to enjoy my led family

Is this Mole Led's good option?
are the photometrics for real? Mole dosent show a complete info about it.
they said its 1000fc at 10feet/flood and 2000fc 10feet/spot.

instead Mole, there is another reliable option for this output LED demand?
i am not looking for 2K tung similar this time.

appreciate your senior wisdom fellas

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/BR



--
Cleverson Cassanelli

diretor de fotografia
11 96635 0917
São Paulo

Stephen Lighthill
 

In regard to  Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs,  Mark wrote:
They use holographic lenses for beam control 

So, why do they use the term holographic? What is the technology, exactly?


 Stephen Lighthill, ASC
Los Angeles


On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 4:16 PM, Mark Sasahara <marksasahara@...> wrote:


I have used Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs for Phantom jobs and tabletops. They look really nice, have lots of output and combine nicely with daylight. I believe they are equivalent to a 2.5K HMI, 7,454FC @ 10 ft. They use holographic lenses for beam control and can have a wired remote control box.


The Punch is a little bigger than a 2K tungsten Fresnel, but not terribly heavy. They are not crisp like a fresnel, but look pretty good, with decent contrast, but a little bit diffuse.

Best,

-Mark

Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:26 AM cleverson cassanelli <ccassanelli@...> wrote:
I heard that Mole Richardson Led 900w and 1600w have HMI 1200 and 2500W similar output.
Well, i have my own LED kit with two Select 20 and 30, one Litemat4+, one Sola4+ and one Intellytech Canon 165W
Now i looking for this high output option to enjoy my led family

Is this Mole Led's good option?
are the photometrics for real? Mole dosent show a complete info about it.
they said its 1000fc at 10feet/flood and 2000fc 10feet/spot.

instead Mole, there is another reliable option for this output LED demand?
i am not looking for 2K tung similar this time.

appreciate your senior wisdom fellas

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/BR

Mark Sasahara
 

Copy. If you scroll down the Aadyntech page, you will see the various lights they offer. The smaller Jab and Punch Jr are pretty good, but I have not used them myself. I think the website shows pics of the Jab & etc. being used in sports (ESPN) and news (local/national USA) stand up situations.

You might be able request some units to test from Mole, especially, if you work with a local rental company. It may be worth a phone call, or two, to get a couple of lights you can evaluate, maybe make a video about it. I too, am intrigued by their larger single COB LED lights.

I have used the Joker 800 on TV shows, and smaller shoots, coming in through a window, etc. Not as much poop as a 1.2K, or 1.8K HMI, but it's a good car option for high output/small size. As pointed out, can be put in a soft box, shot thru a frame, etc. If you are traveling, this might be a good option, along with some LEDs.

On the subject of Chimera frames, I have a Chimera Tota Frame, for 3x Lowel Tota Lights, it's a large open frame. When, for some reason, the power cables started melting, I opened the front of a Desisti 2K Fresnel and stuck that inside the frame to get my key light. So, there are options. The frame is also beefy and big enough to use Cardelinnis, or Mafers to mount multiple lights. So, you could gang together a bunch of smaller LED lights and push them through a bag, or diff frame. Some of the Chinese mfrs, like Aputure, Neewer, Dracast, Yongnuo, Godox, Fiilex, etc. seem to be making decent lights, at a decent price.

You could get crazy and (like me) make your own lights. I am looking at getting some of the better quality 100W LEDs and make something, but it's multiple LED COBs (Chip On Board). The drawback is that they make multiple shadows and generate lots of heat. While more efficient, LEDs still make tons of heat, so you need very large heat sinks. I have been using LiteGear LiteRibbon, but will be making some bigger lights soon.

Best,

-Mark Sasahara, DP, NYC

Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 9:25 PM cleverson cassanelli <ccassanelli@...> wrote:
appreciate everybody
till now just Daniel Colmenares has catched my point
i looking for, or trying to understand about HMI equivalent in LED. to buy, not to rent.
its not just about lux. its about cut/shape and difusing light, about weight and about energy draw.
HMI its a weapon we can shot whatever we want to.

maybe still not having availeble equivalent LED source as HMI. Agreed ARRI M18 and Joker are far best option for small, but quality production. i keep going rental houses to get this lights every month.

the major companys who is promissing lots of comparative products must thinking about that cinematographers and gaffers
still not buying this comercial aproach. we just test every light source and discuss with ourselves
what works or not.

till now i get no opinion about Mole 900W led (still looking for). if is reliable as HMI 1200 substitute.
Mole 1600W Led i already understand its to heavy for the intention.

With this led lights/kit i can work even alone or with one gaffer.
Brasil its a huge place. we need to travel a lot. its not easy to carry  lots of 2K Tung, HMI,  plus butterfly or chimera's and flags to everywhere.
worst, i am not getting young to still runing sandbags and heavy tripods day after day.

My best choice far was to buy Litemat4+
If i have nothing or no one to lit. The litemat i can afford by myself keeping a great source.
I already tested Litemat and Kino Select in travels to Argentina and Uruguay. Or by car trough Sao Paulo to Rio de Janeiro (400km)
i could do that in just two people. for comercial jobs for Hotel's and Food Company.
Was pretty easy. with a very good quality of light. just soft light. but, that what i was needing.

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/Brasil



Em qua, 7 de nov de 2018 às 22:16, Mark Sasahara <marksasahara@...> escreveu:
I have used Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs for Phantom jobs and tabletops. They look really nice, have lots of output and combine nicely with daylight. I believe they are equivalent to a 2.5K HMI, 7,454FC @ 10 ft. They use holographic lenses for beam control and can have a wired remote control box.


The Punch is a little bigger than a 2K tungsten Fresnel, but not terribly heavy. They are not crisp like a fresnel, but look pretty good, with decent contrast, but a little bit diffuse.

Best,

-Mark

Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:26 AM cleverson cassanelli <ccassanelli@...> wrote:
I heard that Mole Richardson Led 900w and 1600w have HMI 1200 and 2500W similar output.
Well, i have my own LED kit with two Select 20 and 30, one Litemat4+, one Sola4+ and one Intellytech Canon 165W
Now i looking for this high output option to enjoy my led family

Is this Mole Led's good option?
are the photometrics for real? Mole dosent show a complete info about it.
they said its 1000fc at 10feet/flood and 2000fc 10feet/spot.

instead Mole, there is another reliable option for this output LED demand?
i am not looking for 2K tung similar this time.

appreciate your senior wisdom fellas

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/BR


--
Cleverson Cassanelli

diretor de fotografia
11 96635 0917
São Paulo

Brian Doran
 

I would not expect any 900w LED source to have an output equal to a 1200w HMI, if that's what we're talking about. HMI technology has a higher lumen to watt ratio than LED, I don't believe that there is any way around that. I worry that many LED fixture datasheets are leaving out the beam diameter in an attempt to appear to have a greater total output. It's not logical to compare a spotty LED fixture to something like a 1200 PAR. 
 
If you want to avoid carrying around chimeras and diffusion, and are shooting saturated colors and/or high-speed, it makes sense to stick with broad LED sources. If you need to shoot outside with lots of light, an HMI setup will likely end up weighing less than an LED of equivalent output. Even including the ballast. 
 
At 10ft, an M18 (lamped for 1200W) in full flood (63°) produces 648FC with a beam diameter of 12.02ft. The head, ballast, and a 25' header weigh about 55.4lbs all together. 17.6lbs for the ballast. 27.3lbs for the head. 10.5lbs for the header.
I tried comparing that to the Mole 900W SeniorLED, but their output angle includes the field instead of just the beam. The beam is the area within 50% of the maximum output, while the field is anywhere within 10% of the maximum. Because of this, I don't think that I can make an accurate comparison between the two in terms of beam angle. I suppose I can try to compare the 900W Mole to the M18 at 39° instead to try to make up for this. If anyone has a better idea, please do step in.
 
So let's instead use the M18 (still lamped for 1200W) at 39°. At 10ft, we now have an output of 1625FC with a diameter of 6.89ft. Approx. 55.4lbs.
The Mole 900w at field angle of 55° at 10ft yields 1000FC. The head weighs 41lbs. I can't find the weight of the external PSU, but the packaged weight it 59.2 lbs.
If you want a closer output, you will have to consider the Mole Tener.
The Mole 1600W Tener with a field angle of 55° at 10ft yields 2000FC. The head weighs 70lbs. I can't find the weight of the external PSU, but the packaged weight is 90.5 lbs.
If we lamped the M18 for 1800w, at beam angle 39° we would have 2165FC. Still approximately 55.4lbs.
 
LED certainly has the edge over tungsten, but HMI remains the most efficient for now. Let's also consider the fact that the head weight is significantly higher for LEDs than for HMIs.
 
I feel like I'm beating up on Mole a little here, but this extends to all LED Manufacturers that I'm aware of. I just don't see HMIs going away any time soon, they're just too bright.
 
Brian Doran
Lighting Technician
New York

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 10:06 PM Stephen Lighthill <slights@...> wrote:
In regard to  Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs,  Mark wrote:
They use holographic lenses for beam control 
 
 
So, why do they use the term holographic? What is the technology, exactly?
 
 
 Stephen Lighthill, ASC
Los Angeles


On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 4:16 PM, Mark Sasahara <marksasahara@...> wrote:


I have used Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs for Phantom jobs and tabletops. They look really nice, have lots of output and combine nicely with daylight. I believe they are equivalent to a 2.5K HMI, 7,454FC @ 10 ft. They use holographic lenses for beam control and can have a wired remote control box.
 
 
The Punch is a little bigger than a 2K tungsten Fresnel, but not terribly heavy. They are not crisp like a fresnel, but look pretty good, with decent contrast, but a little bit diffuse.
 
Best,
 
-Mark
 
Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com


On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:26 AM cleverson cassanelli <ccassanelli@...> wrote:
I heard that Mole Richardson Led 900w and 1600w have HMI 1200 and 2500W similar output.
Well, i have my own LED kit with two Select 20 and 30, one Litemat4+, one Sola4+ and one Intellytech Canon 165W
Now i looking for this high output option to enjoy my led family

Is this Mole Led's good option?
are the photometrics for real? Mole dosent show a complete info about it.
they said its 1000fc at 10feet/flood and 2000fc 10feet/spot.

instead Mole, there is another reliable option for this output LED demand?
i am not looking for 2K tung similar this time.

appreciate your senior wisdom fellas

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/BR


 

 


 
--
Brian Doran

Brian Doran
 

I just had a thought; It might be more accurate to compare the Moles to a D12 Fresnel than to an M-Series PAR-Fresnel hybrid head.
The D12 at 30° at 10ft generates 1378FC with a diameter of 5.36ft. The head weighs 22lbs, so 50.1lbs all together.

This certainly narrows the gap between HMI and LED, though it's still hard to compare without knowing the Mole beam angle exactly. I think my earlier assessment is still true.

Brian Doran
Lighting Technician
New York

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 10:49 PM Brian Doran <bdoran93@...> wrote:
I would not expect any 900w LED source to have an output equal to a 1200w HMI, if that's what we're talking about. HMI technology has a higher lumen to watt ratio than LED, I don't believe that there is any way around that. I worry that many LED fixture datasheets are leaving out the beam diameter in an attempt to appear to have a greater total output. It's not logical to compare a spotty LED fixture to something like a 1200 PAR. 

If you want to avoid carrying around chimeras and diffusion, and are shooting saturated colors and/or high-speed, it makes sense to stick with broad LED sources. If you need to shoot outside with lots of light, an HMI setup will likely end up weighing less than an LED of equivalent output. Even including the ballast. 

At 10ft, an M18 (lamped for 1200W) in full flood (63°) produces 648FC with a beam diameter of 12.02ft. The head, ballast, and a 25' header weigh about 55.4lbs all together. 17.6lbs for the ballast. 27.3lbs for the head. 10.5lbs for the header.
I tried comparing that to the Mole 900W SeniorLED, but their output angle includes the field instead of just the beam. The beam is the area within 50% of the maximum output, while the field is anywhere within 10% of the maximum. Because of this, I don't think that I can make an accurate comparison between the two in terms of beam angle. I suppose I can try to compare the 900W Mole to the M18 at 39° instead to try to make up for this. If anyone has a better idea, please do step in.

So let's instead use the M18 (still lamped for 1200W) at 39°. At 10ft, we now have an output of 1625FC with a diameter of 6.89ft. Approx. 55.4lbs.
The Mole 900w at field angle of 55° at 10ft yields 1000FC. The head weighs 41lbs. I can't find the weight of the external PSU, but the packaged weight it 59.2 lbs.
If you want a closer output, you will have to consider the Mole Tener.
The Mole 1600W Tener with a field angle of 55° at 10ft yields 2000FC. The head weighs 70lbs. I can't find the weight of the external PSU, but the packaged weight is 90.5 lbs.
If we lamped the M18 for 1800w, at beam angle 39° we would have 2165FC. Still approximately 55.4lbs.

LED certainly has the edge over tungsten, but HMI remains the most efficient for now. Let's also consider the fact that the head weight is significantly higher for LEDs than for HMIs.

I feel like I'm beating up on Mole a little here, but this extends to all LED Manufacturers that I'm aware of. I just don't see HMIs going away any time soon, they're just too bright.

Brian Doran
Lighting Technician
New York

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 10:06 PM Stephen Lighthill <slights@...> wrote:
In regard to  Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs,  Mark wrote:
They use holographic lenses for beam control 

So, why do they use the term holographic? What is the technology, exactly?


 Stephen Lighthill, ASC
Los Angeles


On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 4:16 PM, Mark Sasahara <marksasahara@...> wrote:


I have used Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs for Phantom jobs and tabletops. They look really nice, have lots of output and combine nicely with daylight. I believe they are equivalent to a 2.5K HMI, 7,454FC @ 10 ft. They use holographic lenses for beam control and can have a wired remote control box.


The Punch is a little bigger than a 2K tungsten Fresnel, but not terribly heavy. They are not crisp like a fresnel, but look pretty good, with decent contrast, but a little bit diffuse.

Best,

-Mark

Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:26 AM cleverson cassanelli <ccassanelli@...> wrote:
I heard that Mole Richardson Led 900w and 1600w have HMI 1200 and 2500W similar output.
Well, i have my own LED kit with two Select 20 and 30, one Litemat4+, one Sola4+ and one Intellytech Canon 165W
Now i looking for this high output option to enjoy my led family

Is this Mole Led's good option?
are the photometrics for real? Mole dosent show a complete info about it.
they said its 1000fc at 10feet/flood and 2000fc 10feet/spot.

instead Mole, there is another reliable option for this output LED demand?
i am not looking for 2K tung similar this time.

appreciate your senior wisdom fellas

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/BR




--
Brian Doran


--
Brian Doran

Mark Sasahara
 

Stephen,

Forgive me, but I know what a holographic lens is and what it does, but, I have no idea how it accomplishes the task.

Some links:


They also use diffraction grating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction_grating

The following is probably completely wrong, so call a mfr:
I'm guessing that this may be like Rosco Brushed silk, where the gel has linear striations. The light passing through the striations spreads perpendicular to the striations. Hence, Brushed Silk will spread the beam of light perpendicular to the striations = Vertical striations make the beam spread horizontally. In this vein, I believe that speckle patterns can concentrate light and wavy patterns can spread beams of light. This is probably wrong and horribly over simplified.

Forgive me, I know they exist, but I do not know how they work.

Mark Sasahara, clueless in NYC :~)

  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
  



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 10:06 PM Stephen Lighthill <slights@...> wrote:
In regard to  Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs,  Mark wrote:
They use holographic lenses for beam control 

So, why do they use the term holographic? What is the technology, exactly?


 Stephen Lighthill, ASC
Los Angeles


On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 4:16 PM, Mark Sasahara <marksasahara@...> wrote:


I have used Aadyntech Punch and Punch Plus daylight LEDs for Phantom jobs and tabletops. They look really nice, have lots of output and combine nicely with daylight. I believe they are equivalent to a 2.5K HMI, 7,454FC @ 10 ft. They use holographic lenses for beam control and can have a wired remote control box.


The Punch is a little bigger than a 2K tungsten Fresnel, but not terribly heavy. They are not crisp like a fresnel, but look pretty good, with decent contrast, but a little bit diffuse.

Best,

-Mark

Mark Sasahara
  marksasahara@...
   718-440-1013
    http://msasahara.com



On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:26 AM cleverson cassanelli <ccassanelli@...> wrote:
I heard that Mole Richardson Led 900w and 1600w have HMI 1200 and 2500W similar output.
Well, i have my own LED kit with two Select 20 and 30, one Litemat4+, one Sola4+ and one Intellytech Canon 165W
Now i looking for this high output option to enjoy my led family

Is this Mole Led's good option?
are the photometrics for real? Mole dosent show a complete info about it.
they said its 1000fc at 10feet/flood and 2000fc 10feet/spot.

instead Mole, there is another reliable option for this output LED demand?
i am not looking for 2K tung similar this time.

appreciate your senior wisdom fellas

Cleverson Cassanelli/DP
São Paulo/BR


Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
 

Instead of a LED substitute, I would recommend K5600 Alpha. I tested some of those with 50 ASA Daylight film stock (7203) shooting a Kodak Gray Card Plus at CINEC 2018 in Germany. Aside from the beautiful light and providing excellent color separation, and no visible color cast on the black, mid gray and white patterns of the chart,   those K5600 Alpha are quite versatile and rather slim profile. 
Their portfolio includes several Alpha: 200W, 1600W 2500/4000W and so on.

Best regards,
Daniel Henríquez Ilic
Photographer / Post-Producer
Santiago de Chile
+56 975543323

Glenn Lee Dicus
 

I’ve used both daylight and tungsten tenors. The tungsten is comparable to a 12k we had on hand and while I didn’t compare the daylight to an existing hmi fixture, I did use it on a 2000 watt suitcase generator. Not recommended, but you definitely got some punch to power ratio going for you there.

Glenn Lee Dicus
LA Loader
310.903.7069

Mark Kenfield
 

I've compared the LED Mole Tenner to a regular 10k, and though the beam wasn't quite as nice, it wasn't bad (certainly nicer than anything shy of a proper, point-source fresnel), the output was very impressive and the colour seemed solid on my spectrometer.

It's obviously a big fixture, but I feel like the big bonus that people don't seem to discuss so much, is that you get all of that output, with 0-100% dimming, and no real colour shift.

Working at the high ISOs we do these days, where balancing the relative levels of different fixtures is so important (and so much more finicky). I feel like that would make the Tenner really versatile. You just bring it with you wherever, and whatever amount of level you need, you can dial it in in seconds.

I feel like that's a strong selling point.

Cheers,

Mark Kenfield
Cinematographer

0400 044 500


On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 17:10, Glenn Lee Dicus <glenndicus@...> wrote:
I’ve used both daylight and tungsten tenors. The tungsten is comparable to a 12k we had on hand and while I didn’t compare the daylight to an existing hmi fixture, I did use it on a 2000 watt suitcase generator. Not recommended, but you definitely got some punch to power ratio going for you there.

Glenn Lee Dicus
LA Loader
310.903.7069

Geoff Boyle
 

The Alphas are absolutely gorgeous lights.

 

Especially with the clear glass, light you can shape any way you want.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-lighting@... <cml-lighting@...> On Behalf Of Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
Sent: 08 November 2018 06:23
To: cml-lighting@...
Subject: [cml-lighting] LED option for HMI output

 

Instead of a LED substitute, I would recommend K5600 Alpha. I tested some of those with 50 ASA Daylight film stock (7203) shooting a Kodak Gray Card Plus at CINEC 2018 in Germany. Aside from the beautiful light and providing excellent color separation, and no visible color cast on the black, mid gray and white patterns of the chart,   those K5600 Alpha are quite versatile and rather slim profile. 

Their portfolio includes several Alpha: 200W, 1600W 2500/4000W and so on.

 

Best regards,

Daniel Henríquez Ilic

Photographer / Post-Producer

Santiago de Chile

+56 975543323

Brian Doran
 

Mark makes a good point about the better dimming ability of LEDs. they also have the benefit of performing well with high speed shooting, at least to some degree. I'm aware of some LED fixtures with dedicated high speed modes, but I imagine most would perform well up to a few hundred FPS as long as they are at 100% output. 

Brian Doran 
Lighting Technician 
New York 

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 1:36 AM Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:

The Alphas are absolutely gorgeous lights.

 

Especially with the clear glass, light you can shape any way you want.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-lighting@... <cml-lighting@...> On Behalf Of Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
Sent: 08 November 2018 06:23
To: cml-lighting@...
Subject: [cml-lighting] LED option for HMI output

 

Instead of a LED substitute, I would recommend K5600 Alpha. I tested some of those with 50 ASA Daylight film stock (7203) shooting a Kodak Gray Card Plus at CINEC 2018 in Germany. Aside from the beautiful light and providing excellent color separation, and no visible color cast on the black, mid gray and white patterns of the chart,   those K5600 Alpha are quite versatile and rather slim profile. 

Their portfolio includes several Alpha: 200W, 1600W 2500/4000W and so on.

 

Best regards,

Daniel Henríquez Ilic

Photographer / Post-Producer

Santiago de Chile

+56 975543323

--
Sent by Brian Doran

cleverson cassanelli
 

yes, dimming is a tool, real one that matters.
lets try this aproach:

ARRI D12 is U$ 8.670,00
MOLE 900W LED is U$ 4.800,00

we do understand HMI still being a better choice. but still double the price, right?
in this way my point is to understand if worth the Mole 900W or any similiar. Intellytech has a fresnel Canon 800W, for example.

understand i proposed a comparative head to head but was my mistake make this way.
i intented to understand if it worth a buy, if there is any good option of LED, good enough, not to replace exactly but in
satisfatory way

to focus in this issue
there is Intellytech Canon 800W, Mole 900W/1600W, Desisti F14 who promise not equal, but big output.
imagine a simple scenario. you want to put a daylight fresnel outside the window (6meters away) to lit a kitchen, as a key light
bringing up some shapes.

instead a D12, Joker or D18. what LED could do this job?


Em qui, 8 de nov de 2018 às 10:20, Brian Doran <bdoran93@...> escreveu:

Mark makes a good point about the better dimming ability of LEDs. they also have the benefit of performing well with high speed shooting, at least to some degree. I'm aware of some LED fixtures with dedicated high speed modes, but I imagine most would perform well up to a few hundred FPS as long as they are at 100% output. 

Brian Doran 
Lighting Technician 
New York 

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 1:36 AM Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:

The Alphas are absolutely gorgeous lights.

 

Especially with the clear glass, light you can shape any way you want.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-lighting@... <cml-lighting@...> On Behalf Of Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
Sent: 08 November 2018 06:23
To: cml-lighting@...
Subject: [cml-lighting] LED option for HMI output

 

Instead of a LED substitute, I would recommend K5600 Alpha. I tested some of those with 50 ASA Daylight film stock (7203) shooting a Kodak Gray Card Plus at CINEC 2018 in Germany. Aside from the beautiful light and providing excellent color separation, and no visible color cast on the black, mid gray and white patterns of the chart,   those K5600 Alpha are quite versatile and rather slim profile. 

Their portfolio includes several Alpha: 200W, 1600W 2500/4000W and so on.

 

Best regards,

Daniel Henríquez Ilic

Photographer / Post-Producer

Santiago de Chile

+56 975543323

--
Sent by Brian Doran



--
Cleverson Cassanelli

diretor de fotografia
11 96635 0917
São Paulo

Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
 



ARRI D12 is U$ 8.670,00
MOLE 900W LED is U$ 4.800,00

we do understand HMI still being a better choice. but still double the price, right?

 

The FOB price for a K5600 HMI fixture would be USD 5565 according to the same source:


imagine a simple scenario. you want to put a daylight fresnel outside the window (6meters away) to lit a kitchen, as a key light
bringing up some shapes.

instead a D12, Joker or D18. what LED could do this job?

In this imaginary scenario, that you need to put a daylight fresnel outside the window, I would place a K5600 Alpha 1600W. This could do this job.  

Here's a video about the small Alpha 200W.   I look forward to test it soon.
 
Best regards,
Daniel Henriquez Ilic
Film Cinematographer
Santiago de Chile

cleverson cassanelli
 

"The FOB price for a K5600 HMI fixture would be USD 5565 according to the same source:

No man
this price is just for Head
with ballast will be more than 9K dolars



Em qui, 8 de nov de 2018 às 14:07, Daniel Henríquez-Ilic <dhisur@...> escreveu:



ARRI D12 is U$ 8.670,00
MOLE 900W LED is U$ 4.800,00

we do understand HMI still being a better choice. but still double the price, right?

 

The FOB price for a K5600 HMI fixture would be USD 5565 according to the same source:


imagine a simple scenario. you want to put a daylight fresnel outside the window (6meters away) to lit a kitchen, as a key light
bringing up some shapes.

instead a D12, Joker or D18. what LED could do this job?

In this imaginary scenario, that you need to put a daylight fresnel outside the window, I would place a K5600 Alpha 1600W. This could do this job.  

Here's a video about the small Alpha 200W.   I look forward to test it soon.
 
Best regards,
Daniel Henriquez Ilic
Film Cinematographer
Santiago de Chile



--
Cleverson Cassanelli

diretor de fotografia
11 96635 0917
São Paulo