Topics

Sony Picture Profile


Fernando Alves
 

Hello, 

Next month I am going to shoot a video in Sony Alpha 7 iii and a Sony Alpha 6300. My last experience with Sony I use  PPP2 and I don't know if I miss something, the footage was pushing for red. I have seen some videos about how to set up Sony Picture Profile, but I didn't find a good solution. Anybody knows a good material about it? Or does anyone like or work with Sony Alpha can explain for me how her/his PPP setup. 

Thanks a lot


Geoff Boyle
 

Hi Fernando,

 

I can’t help as this is way outside my experience.

However, my best advice always is to test test test.

 

Please sign your messages in future.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-mentor@... <cml-mentor@...> On Behalf Of Fernando Alves
Sent: 08 July 2020 20:50
To: cml-mentor@...
Subject: [cml-mentor] Sony Picture Profile

 

Hello, 

Next month I am going to shoot a video in Sony Alpha 7 iii and a Sony Alpha 6300. My last experience with Sony I use  PPP2 and I don't know if I miss something, the footage was pushing for red. I have seen some videos about how to set up Sony Picture Profile, but I didn't find a good solution. Anybody knows a good material about it? Or does anyone like or work with Sony Alpha can explain for me how her/his PPP setup. 

Thanks a lot


Simon Lakos
 

Hi Fernando,

Once you have the Picture Profile list selected in your menu you can press to the right on the thumbwheel and it will go further into the settings. Each PP will have a pre-selected Gamma and Colour Space which you can change and play around with the black levels. Here is where you can, as Geoff rightly said, test test test.

Here is a link which may offer you some help:


If you’re looking to grade or use luts then despite the lacking bit-depth, S-Log2 will give you more control.

I hope this gets you on your way,

S.

Director of Photography

www.simonlakos.com

+44(0)7742428364


On 9 Jul 2020, at 06:10, Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:



Hi Fernando,

 

I can’t help as this is way outside my experience.

However, my best advice always is to test test test.

 

Please sign your messages in future.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-mentor@... <cml-mentor@...> On Behalf Of Fernando Alves
Sent: 08 July 2020 20:50
To: cml-mentor@...
Subject: [cml-mentor] Sony Picture Profile

 

Hello, 

Next month I am going to shoot a video in Sony Alpha 7 iii and a Sony Alpha 6300. My last experience with Sony I use  PPP2 and I don't know if I miss something, the footage was pushing for red. I have seen some videos about how to set up Sony Picture Profile, but I didn't find a good solution. Anybody knows a good material about it? Or does anyone like or work with Sony Alpha can explain for me how her/his PPP setup. 

Thanks a lot


Fernando Alves
 

Hi, Mr Boyle. Thanks a lot. I will test.

Take care,

Cheers

Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves


Fernando Alves
 

Hi Simon. Going to read this article!

Does anybody else here like to shoot in Sony Alpha?

Cheers,

Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves


M. Cole Chilton
 

Hi Fernando, 

I have three experiences with Sony Alpha. I do not say that I "like" it, but I do say that it does a surprisingly great job... especially if you follow Geoff and Simon's advice: test + S-Log!

I can't emphasize enough how much it is the S-Log that makes it work! I prefer S-Log3 + S-Gamut3.Cine (monitored with the "Type A" LUT). Email and I will send if you don't have it. 

On your menu change the "Picture Profile" setting to S-Log3 (or S-Log2 and test!). 

The most fun situation I had with Sony Alpha was I got a few unexpected days "off" (i.e., stranded on the very rural Big Island of Hawaii after a commercial shoot) and I put up a "job" post and one of the residents answered who had a 6300 that after changing it to Slog3, Gamut 3.Cine it matched the the other "better" Sony camera's footage very well. The 6300 held up as long as there was enough light and on a tripod. 




M. Cole Chilton
Director/DP 
Current project: www.rebelblood.co 
instagram.com/mcolechilton
607-339-6111 (cell)


On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 11:16 PM Fernando Alves <alves.fernandobr@...> wrote:
Hi Simon. Going to read this article!

Does anybody else here like to shoot in Sony Alpha?

Cheers,

Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves


Michalis Agisilaou
 

I need the s-log 3 lut you mentioned. Can you send it to me? Thank you

I realise that if I don't sign my messages they will be rejected...

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, 09:33 M. Cole Chilton, <mcolechilton@...> wrote:
Hi Fernando, 
 
I have three experiences with Sony Alpha. I do not say that I "like" it, but I do say that it does a surprisingly great job... especially if you follow Geoff and Simon's advice: test + S-Log!
 
I can't emphasize enough how much it is the S-Log that makes it work! I prefer S-Log3 + S-Gamut3.Cine (monitored with the "Type A" LUT). Email and I will send if you don't have it. 
 
On your menu change the "Picture Profile" setting to S-Log3 (or S-Log2 and test!). 
 
The most fun situation I had with Sony Alpha was I got a few unexpected days "off" (i.e., stranded on the very rural Big Island of Hawaii after a commercial shoot) and I put up a "job" post and one of the residents answered who had a 6300 that after changing it to Slog3, Gamut 3.Cine it matched the the other "better" Sony camera's footage very well. The 6300 held up as long as there was enough light and on a tripod. 
 
 
 

M. Cole Chilton
Director/DP 
Current project: www.rebelblood.co 
instagram.com/mcolechilton
607-339-6111 (cell)

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 11:16 PM Fernando Alves <alves.fernandobr@...> wrote:
Hi Simon. Going to read this article!

Does anybody else here like to shoot in Sony Alpha?

Cheers,

Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves

 

 

 

 


Fernando Alves
 
Edited

Hello, M. Cole Chilton. I will test your setup and also S-Log2. I don't have "Type A"LUT. I will write you an e-mail.

I think I am going to rent three LYKOS Bi-Color LED. Do you know if I can get nice skin color with it? Or do you have any advice for me in what kind of light should I use?

LYKOS Bi-Color LED - https://www.manfrotto.com/global/led-light-lykos-bicolour-surface-mounted-with-dimmer-mll1300-bi/

Thanks a lot, M. Cole Chilton.

Take care,

Cheers,

Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves


Sarah Winters
 

I have been shooting on an a7sii for a long time and can't recommend the work of Andrew Reid highly enough:  https://www.eoshd.com/pro-color/

Basically, he's developed Rec709 color profiles for Sony that mimic the Rec709 characteristics of Canon's color science; you pay him in exchange for the full information on the color profiles, program them into your camera, and BAM - much improved Rec 709 right out of camera.

Of course, if you're going to capture in Slog and grade it -- that's a different story entirely. But if I know that I or production doesn't have time/money for color correction, I will 100% use Andrew's profile in any situation.


Sarah Winters
Los Angeles
Cinematographer/AC

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 6:24 AM Michalis Agisilaou <michalis.agisilaou@...> wrote:
I need the s-log 3 lut you mentioned. Can you send it to me? Thank you

I realise that if I don't sign my messages they will be rejected...

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020, 09:33 M. Cole Chilton, <mcolechilton@...> wrote:
Hi Fernando, 
 
I have three experiences with Sony Alpha. I do not say that I "like" it, but I do say that it does a surprisingly great job... especially if you follow Geoff and Simon's advice: test + S-Log!
 
I can't emphasize enough how much it is the S-Log that makes it work! I prefer S-Log3 + S-Gamut3.Cine (monitored with the "Type A" LUT). Email and I will send if you don't have it. 
 
On your menu change the "Picture Profile" setting to S-Log3 (or S-Log2 and test!). 
 
The most fun situation I had with Sony Alpha was I got a few unexpected days "off" (i.e., stranded on the very rural Big Island of Hawaii after a commercial shoot) and I put up a "job" post and one of the residents answered who had a 6300 that after changing it to Slog3, Gamut 3.Cine it matched the the other "better" Sony camera's footage very well. The 6300 held up as long as there was enough light and on a tripod. 
 
 
 

M. Cole Chilton
Director/DP 
Current project: www.rebelblood.co 
instagram.com/mcolechilton
607-339-6111 (cell)

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 11:16 PM Fernando Alves <alves.fernandobr@...> wrote:
Hi Simon. Going to read this article!

Does anybody else here like to shoot in Sony Alpha?

Cheers,

Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves

 

 

 

 



--
sarah winters
director of photography
773.320.0266


Fernando Alves
 

Hello Sara,

Thank you very much. I saw he sells Pro Color 3.0 to use in camera and Pro Log Premium Bundle to use in post. Have you ever use this Pro Log Premium? And if you taste both methods, which one do you prefer? Pro Color 3.0 in camera or Pro Log in post? 

Take care.

Cheers,

Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves


john sklba
 

I tried that Color Profile 3.0 on my A6300, and a few of the other profiles those guys made. I really didn't like the results.

 

I started a list of notes for myself about some profiles, that have the profiles listed, in case anyone wants to read through my scribbling notes. There's links to various profiles.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sn3d-Z0cgWY-_4bAcA9pFqHHXjWrA0Bv_0ppGCwwbSU/edit?usp=sharing

Enjoy

John Sklba
Memphis, TN


Agustin Barrutia
 

Hello Fernando!. 

I've been using the Sony Alpha cameras for some time already and owned some of them. 
They can be a bit tricky with exposure and Luts, but once you get to know them and how to deal with it, they can give great results! I even used them as B cams with Fs7 and Arri Alexas and with a good Colorist you dont really see the difference (depending on subject matter of course).
My first advice is that, depending what you shoot and in which situation Slog might be a good or a bad choice. You need to overexpose it at least 1 stop to avoid noise, and if you dont have enough light you might be better shooting in another profile like Cine4. The aps-c cameras are much noisier than the FF ones so be careful with under exposure, specially with the A6300. Be careful not to overexpose too much or you'll compress your highlights and loose a lot of quality and it will be very difficult to grade.
Try to get external onboard monitors that can use LUTS and get your colorist do some exposure LUTS with -1 corrections so you can shoot seeing a "graded" image. As the camera doesnt support luts, if you dont have an external monitor with a correction LUT you will be shooting looking at an overexposed image. 
As Simon Lakos said you should configure the PP to your choice, so get into any PP and choose which Gamma/Gamut setup you will be using. 
Some people might use s-log3 for day exterior and high contrast situations, and switch to slog2 for interior and darker shots, but in the end in my experience the results are quite similar once you grade the footage. For this TEST! and try to find your best setup depending on your shoot. Id stick with gamma slog2/gammut3cine for start. Slog3 will compress highlights and crop at 95% or something, and if you use zebras at 100% you might think there is detail in the highlights but they will be blownout. 
A very good resource with lots of info on Sony cameras, Slog2, Slog3 etc is Alister Chapman Blog: http://www.xdcam-user.com/picture-settings-and-luts/
Take your time and go though it and read about PPs, Tips etc; and after reading about it TEST!!!!!
Another good resource where you can make your own luts is LUTCALC: https://cameramanben.github.io/LUTCalc/
Be careful to choose correctly the configuration on Lutcalc to avoid problems. If you dont understand the parameters look for help from an experienced Colorist.

 

Cheers,

Agustin Barrutia (ADF),
Cinematographer,
Buenos Aires, Argentina,
www.agustinbarrutia.com.ar



Fernando Alves
 

Thanks for sharing your notes! I appreciate you share it. Going to try these setups. Very helpful, John. 

Cool thread this one: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20156-a6300-flat-profile-other-than-slog/

Take care.

Cheers,
Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves


Fernando Alves
 
Edited

Hola Agustin,

I am going to try shoot in SLog. Going to overexpose and be aware of avoid crashing the highlights. Do you have any advise in how to monitoring the exposure in the histogram? For sure I wil rent an external monitor and use Lut. Not going to create my own because don't have much experience in color grading. Going to try some Luts in this last link you send.

Gracias, Hermano!

Take care,
Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves


Fernando Alves
 

Hello everybody, thank you very much for all the sharing knowledge. I have been doing a good research about Sony Alpha picture profiles, exposure, white balance.

I found out that I can set up my light using false color on an external monitor. What you guys think about false color to measure the exposure? 

Another doubt that came up. Since I am going to use Slog2 or Slog3, how can I use a LUT in external monitor? What I mean is I am going to over expose my image by 2 stops in Slog2 or Slog3 and and apply a LUT in the external monitor to don't see the overexposed image that Slog generates. My doubt is if I am seeing a "grade" image in the monitor, does my histogram measures the Slog from the camera or from the "grade"image in the monitor with the LUT applied? Guess I am missing something. 

Take care

Cheers,
Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography
https://vimeo.com/fernandoalves


Agustin Barrutia
 

Fer, if your monitor has false color its a handy tool to find the right  skin exposure and avoid over and under exposure.
For the sony Alpha series I usually use a mix between Waveform and False Color. Use the waveform to check the exposure and be careful not to compress your image, as the camera is 8bit you will be loosing lots of shades when grading if you do.
Regarding Luts you need an external monitor that supports them. Try to over expose  between 1 to 1 1/2 stop, if you go for 2 full stops you might be crunching highlights and it will be hard to grade afterwards.
Depending on the external monitor you have it will only show the tools reading your LUT image or you might have the option to bypass the LUT and show you the tools reading the Slog signal. Thats an easy guess, as the Lut for sure will contrast the image and looking at the waveform you will be able to see if its readig the LUT or not. 
good luck!

Agustin Barrutia (ADF),
Cinematographer,
Buenos Aires, Argentina,
www.agustinbarrutia.com.ar

 


Adam Wilt
 

What you guys think about false color to measure the exposure? 

I use false color a lot for this purpose, and find it very valuable as it tells me exactly where in the picture I have hot spots, middle grays, etc.

I am seeing a "grade" image in the monitor, does my histogram measures the Slog from the camera or from the "grade"image in the monitor with the LUT applied?

That depends on your monitor. On the PIX-E5, LUTs affect the ’scopes (histogram, WFM, vectorscope), but not the false color levels. On my FieldMonitor app you can choose whether the LUTs affect the ’scopes and the false color levels, or not. On an Odyssey7Q, you can choose to display ’scopes and false color with or without a LUT, either mirroring the image display or independent of it. So check the operations manual of whatever monitor you’re using and see what it allows.

(Disclosure: I make money from FieldMonitor. I mention it not as a sales pitch, but as one of the three LUT-capable monitors I use and have experience with.) 

Adam Wilt
technical services
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)


Fernando Alves
 

Hola Agustin,

Going to rent a monitor that can read LUT. The rent house suggests Small HD SDI 702 7'. 

"Try to over expose  between 1 to 1 1/2 stop, if you go for 2 full stops you might be crunching highlights and it will be hard to grade afterwards."

Great! Going to be aware of this. As my monitor has False Color, going to use Waveform and False Color to exposure my image. 

Muchas Gracias, Agustin!

Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography


Fernando Alves
 

Hello Adam,

"I use false color a lot for this purpose, and find it very valuable as it tells me exactly where in the picture I have hot spots, middle grays, etc."

Nice one. 

Want to try Field Monitor app. Does it work in Iphone 6s? How can I taste it before buy it?

Thanks a lot.

Take care,
Fernando Alves
Editor and now studying Cinematography


Adam Wilt
 

Want to try Field Monitor app. Does it work in Iphone 6s? How can I taste it before buy it?

Yes, it works on iPhone 6S. The App Store doesn’t allow free trials, but I can send you the current beta; contact me off-list (contact into on FieldMonitor website).

Adam Wilt
technical services
Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)