Topics

adobe premiere CC

K_Skowron
 

Hi all,
I’m working in Adobe Premiere Pro CC and I have been asked to help prep the files for Color Grade which will be done in Da Vinci Resolve. I need to deliver DPX files of the entire sequence and there are reasons for it. We mostly shot with Red Epic Mysterium 5K and I need to deliver 2K files. 
My question is how does Adobe Premier understand the R3D files…. does it automatically put any “look” or “LUT” on it when it’s view in the viewer and /or timeline? I want to be able to deliver flat images but the images definitely have something look applied to them. 

Also I need to have 2K files ready, our sequence was 5K what is my best option to get the 2K?
Should I

1) change the sequence to 2K and then scale down all the files in the viewer? In my mind in this option should be best since I would not be processing the raw and would get the best results when grading.

2) The other option would be process all the clips  in Premier and create 2K versions.

3) Process all the clips in RED Cine X Pro and use the newest IPP2… (this is the option I would hope to avoid if I can)


Really what I’m trying to understand is how the RAW is handled by Premier so I can choose one of the best option from the above.

Thank you all for your input,
have a great one,
cheers,
Kacper Skowron

Cinematographer
LA | NYC | CHICAGO | WARSAW
www.kacperskowron.com




Jan Klier
 

In the latest versions of CC the Red Raw user interface has moved. If you add the clips to a timeline, and you go to the Effects Control panel, it has two tabs. The Red Raw controls will be in the one labeled ‘Master’.

That said, honestly speaking, I would prep those files in Resolve. Since you’re only rendering 2K output, the free version of Resolve will handle that, and it’s user interface is much better equipped for transcoding footage than Premiere in my experience.

Jan Klier
DP NYC

My question is how does Adobe Premier understand the R3D files…. does it automatically put any “look” or “LUT” on it when it’s view in the viewer and /or timeline? I want to be able to deliver flat images but the images definitely have something look applied to them.

Paul Curtis
 

On 17 Jan 2018, at 16:25, K_Skowron <info@...> wrote:
Really what I’m trying to understand is how the RAW is handled by Premier so I can choose one of the best option from the above.
There are many workflows for doing this.

When you import R3Ds you will get the Red Debayer options on the master clip. So you can choose how PPro will see the files. This is non destructive and can be set any time (just like RedCine). It's much better to make basic adjustments here than later on.

What you can do is to set that to the IPP2 workflow by using RedWideGamutRGB and Log3G10. This will give you the full range in a log format on the timeline. What you can then do is apply one of the Red generated IPP2 LUTs to transform to your required viewing, possibly on each clip.

When it comes to Resolve i presume you'll re-conform in there, using the original red masters.

But what you could try is if you separate the viewing LUT onto an adjustment layer on top of your footage just to edit with. You could, when ready, turn that off and export the whole sequence as DPX's from PPro. Because you set the master to RWG and Log3G10 it should retain the whole colourspace and range of the camera in those DPX's

I confess to rarely going between PPro and Resolve so there's an element of assuming the above would work, so you might want to try first if you want to avoid conforming in Resolve.

There are many other approaches. One is to create proxies to edit with and have the proxies created with the viewing LUT baked in and then you can switch between master and proxy on the time line and have the masters be the log format ready for DPX exports.

Does that make sense? I'm sure there are plenty of other workflows but this works for me in general.

cheers
Paul

Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK

Jan Ali Moravec
 

Hi,

as a colorist, I'd always prefer to have direct access to "raw" (r3d in this case) and have xml from premiere, as it works quite well from my experience. Is this not an option?

Best,

Jan

Digital Colorist | Online Editor


On 17 Jan 2018, at 18:36, Paul Curtis <paul@...> wrote:

On 17 Jan 2018, at 16:25, K_Skowron <info@...> wrote:
Really what I’m trying to understand is how the RAW is handled by Premier so I can choose one of the best option from the above.
There are many workflows for doing this.

When you import R3Ds you will get the Red Debayer options on the master clip. So you can choose how PPro will see the files. This is non destructive and can be set any time (just like RedCine). It's much better to make basic adjustments here than later on.

What you can do is to set that to the IPP2 workflow by using RedWideGamutRGB and Log3G10. This will give you the full range in a log format on the timeline. What you can then do is apply one of the Red generated IPP2 LUTs to transform to your required viewing, possibly on each clip.

When it comes to Resolve i presume you'll re-conform in there, using the original red masters.

But what you could try is if you separate the viewing LUT onto an adjustment layer on top of your footage just to edit with. You could, when ready, turn that off and export the whole sequence as DPX's from PPro. Because you set the master to RWG and Log3G10 it should retain the whole colourspace and range of the camera in those DPX's

I confess to rarely going between PPro and Resolve so there's an element of assuming the above would work, so you might want to try first if you want to avoid conforming in Resolve.

There are many other approaches. One is to create proxies to edit with and have the proxies created with the viewing LUT baked in and then you can switch between master and proxy on the time line and have the masters be the log format ready for DPX exports.

Does that make sense? I'm sure there are plenty of other workflows but this works for me in general.

cheers
Paul

Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK

Stephen Kuns
 

If your timeline is picture locked and scaling speed changes, speed ramps are not going to change, and you are linked to the r3d’s I would  collapse all of your layers to a single track as much as possible. Remove all filter fx such as lumetri or 3 way color. In the short form world I select the clip in premiere and in the effects control tab change the gamma curve to red log film. That gives me the flat image I am looking for. Then render out as a single clip. If it is a long project with a lot of cuts you can export an EDL and include that with the clip. The earlier suggestion of red wide gamut and log3g12 seem valid as well so you may want to do a short deliverable test for your Colorist. And use the free version of resolve to test for yourself for confidence. 
Stephen Kuns 
Finishing Editor/ Colorist 
LA CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 17, 2018, at 9:36 AM, Paul Curtis <paul@...> wrote:

On 17 Jan 2018, at 16:25, K_Skowron <info@...> wrote:
Really what I’m trying to understand is how the RAW is handled by Premier so I can choose one of the best option from the above.
There are many workflows for doing this.

When you import R3Ds you will get the Red Debayer options on the master clip. So you can choose how PPro will see the files. This is non destructive and can be set any time (just like RedCine). It's much better to make basic adjustments here than later on.

What you can do is to set that to the IPP2 workflow by using RedWideGamutRGB and Log3G10. This will give you the full range in a log format on the timeline. What you can then do is apply one of the Red generated IPP2 LUTs to transform to your required viewing, possibly on each clip.

When it comes to Resolve i presume you'll re-conform in there, using the original red masters.

But what you could try is if you separate the viewing LUT onto an adjustment layer on top of your footage just to edit with. You could, when ready, turn that off and export the whole sequence as DPX's from PPro. Because you set the master to RWG and Log3G10 it should retain the whole colourspace and range of the camera in those DPX's

I confess to rarely going between PPro and Resolve so there's an element of assuming the above would work, so you might want to try first if you want to avoid conforming in Resolve.

There are many other approaches. One is to create proxies to edit with and have the proxies created with the viewing LUT baked in and then you can switch between master and proxy on the time line and have the masters be the log format ready for DPX exports.

Does that make sense? I'm sure there are plenty of other workflows but this works for me in general.

cheers
Paul

Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK

Stephen Kuns
 

Re read your post. My answer is not valid to your questions.
Stephen Kuns
LA CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 17, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Stephen Kuns <stephen920@...> wrote:

If your timeline is picture locked and scaling speed changes, speed ramps are not going to change, and you are linked to the r3d’s I would  collapse all of your layers to a single track as much as possible. Remove all filter fx such as lumetri or 3 way color. In the short form world I select the clip in premiere and in the effects control tab change the gamma curve to red log film. That gives me the flat image I am looking for. Then render out as a single clip. If it is a long project with a lot of cuts you can export an EDL and include that with the clip. The earlier suggestion of red wide gamut and log3g12 seem valid as well so you may want to do a short deliverable test for your Colorist. And use the free version of resolve to test for yourself for confidence. 
Stephen Kuns 
Finishing Editor/ Colorist 
LA CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 17, 2018, at 9:36 AM, Paul Curtis <paul@...> wrote:

On 17 Jan 2018, at 16:25, K_Skowron <info@...> wrote:
Really what I’m trying to understand is how the RAW is handled by Premier so I can choose one of the best option from the above.
There are many workflows for doing this.

When you import R3Ds you will get the Red Debayer options on the master clip. So you can choose how PPro will see the files. This is non destructive and can be set any time (just like RedCine). It's much better to make basic adjustments here than later on.

What you can do is to set that to the IPP2 workflow by using RedWideGamutRGB and Log3G10. This will give you the full range in a log format on the timeline. What you can then do is apply one of the Red generated IPP2 LUTs to transform to your required viewing, possibly on each clip.

When it comes to Resolve i presume you'll re-conform in there, using the original red masters.

But what you could try is if you separate the viewing LUT onto an adjustment layer on top of your footage just to edit with. You could, when ready, turn that off and export the whole sequence as DPX's from PPro. Because you set the master to RWG and Log3G10 it should retain the whole colourspace and range of the camera in those DPX's

I confess to rarely going between PPro and Resolve so there's an element of assuming the above would work, so you might want to try first if you want to avoid conforming in Resolve.

There are many other approaches. One is to create proxies to edit with and have the proxies created with the viewing LUT baked in and then you can switch between master and proxy on the time line and have the masters be the log format ready for DPX exports.

Does that make sense? I'm sure there are plenty of other workflows but this works for me in general.

cheers
Paul

Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK

K_Skowron
 

Guys thank you all for sharing your thoughts. 
Jan Klier your idea was the best for me and  helped me a lot and got me going... The trick was not to use the clips form the timeline but the original files. 
I appreciate it a lot... 

Have a great one,
cheers,
kacper
DP
LA

Paul Curtis
 

On 17 Jan 2018, at 21:01, Jan Ali Moravec <alimoravec@...> wrote:
as a colorist, I'd always prefer to have direct access to "raw" (r3d in this case) and have xml from premiere, as it works quite well from my experience. Is this not an option?
Yes, that's always possible but i've often found that export and conform a real pain, especially these days when edits tend to be quite fluid right up until that final moment.

I just gave the example of dpx export because that in some cases could be easier/faster.

If it's a heavy grading job i'd be tempted to have the edit done in Resolve and if it's a heavy edit job and light grade i'd do it in PPro + Lumetri.

cheers
Paul

Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK

Stu Willis
 

Hi Kacper Skowron,

Premiere Pro editor here. 

I concur with Paul. You should consider doing the conform and deliverables from RESOLVE. 

For RESTORATION, we used ACES within Baselight. I prepped the timeline in Premiere, imported that into Resolve, conformed our different file types -- two flavours of R3D, DNG, and EXR -- and outputted ACES EXRs with an XML EDL from Resolve. You can also export AAF if you'd like.

In your case, you can provide DPXes with handles (if that's what you're after).

— Stu.

On 18 January 2018 at 04:36, Paul Curtis <paul@...> wrote:
On 17 Jan 2018, at 16:25, K_Skowron <info@...> wrote:
Really what I’m trying to understand is how the RAW is handled by Premier so I can choose one of the best option from the above.
There are many workflows for doing this.

When you import R3Ds you will get the Red Debayer options on the master clip. So you can choose how PPro will see the files. This is non destructive and can be set any time (just like RedCine). It's much better to make basic adjustments here than later on.

What you can do is to set that to the IPP2 workflow by using RedWideGamutRGB and Log3G10. This will give you the full range in a log format on the timeline. What you can then do is apply one of the Red generated IPP2 LUTs to transform to your required viewing, possibly on each clip.

When it comes to Resolve i presume you'll re-conform in there, using the original red masters.

But what you could try is if you separate the viewing LUT onto an adjustment layer on top of your footage just to edit with. You could, when ready, turn that off and export the whole sequence as DPX's from PPro. Because you set the master to RWG and Log3G10 it should retain the whole colourspace and range of the camera in those DPX's

I confess to rarely going between PPro and Resolve so there's an element of assuming the above would work, so you might want to try first if you want to avoid conforming in Resolve.

There are many other approaches. One is to create proxies to edit with and have the proxies created with the viewing LUT baked in and then you can switch between master and proxy on the time line and have the masters be the log format ready for DPX exports.

Does that make sense? I'm sure there are plenty of other workflows but this works for me in general.

cheers
Paul

Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK




--

---
stuart willis

au: +61 407 916 450
skype: stuwillis

David Fuller
 

On Jan 17, 2018, at 11:25 AM, K_Skowron <info@...> wrote:
My question is how does Adobe Premier understand the R3D files…. does it automatically put any “look” or “LUT” on it when it’s view in the viewer and /or timeline?
ALL post software, including premiere applies a gamma curve and a color space to a .r3d file when you view it. To see which one in Premiere, right click on the file and choose “source settings”. You’ll see all the Red raw conversion parameters and can edit them. To deliver a flat file, change the gamma to RedLogFilm.

Also I need to have 2K files ready, our sequence was 5K...
Your best option is to set up a render to Dix out of Premiere and specify the frame size there. To deliver best quality, be sure to check both “render at maximum depth” and “use maximum render quality”

3) Process all the clips in RED Cine X Pro and use the newest IPP2…
I would not use ipp2 on mysteries files. But there is no reason you can’t use the older version 2 color science in RedcineX.


Really what I’m trying to understand is how the RAW is handled by Premier...
Premiere handles .r3d the same way RedcineX does. That’s because Adobe uses the Red SDK to add r3d handling to Premiere.




David Fuller
Portland, Maine
david@...