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Re: VFX on Sony Venice: X-OCN XT or Raw?

Emmanuel SUYS
 

Hello Miga, Hello Elvis,

 

Thanks for the input. That was also my understanding from reading some papers from Sony and other sources. Of course will follow whatever VFX  requires, just wanted to have some base before going to meeting. Testing is anyway planned, so will see what the final decision will end up to be.

 

Best regards from Upper Bavaria,

Manny

 

 

 

 

From: Miga Bär <barmiga@...>
In my experience X-OCN XT is absolutely sufficient for any type of VFX work, especially when shooting 5.7K..,

That being said, I would recommend to discuss with your VFX vendor what their experiences with the various X-OCN levels are and what their preference would be for this specific production.. ..

As far as I know there are no reasons left to shoot RAW SQ on a Sony Venice. I've never tested them against each other but have also never seen that X-OCN XT didn't have enough information to get the job done. 

 

From: Elvis Ripley <4@...>
Another vote for XOCN ST being great. Did a show and tested with VFX company, ST was plenty. We shot full sensor 3:2 so VFX had more scene information for tracking.  

 

 

Emmanuel SUYS 
Cinematography - Kinematografie - Photographie Cinématographique 
*16-35-HD-HiSpeed-UW 
*HiSpeed Operator- UW Operator 
*Digital On Set Supervision 
*European based 
- BVK
*Mobil +491734537858 *emmanuel at suys.de 

 


Re: VFX on Sony Venice: X-OCN XT or Raw?

Elvis Ripley
 

Another vote for XOCN ST being great. Did a show and tested with VFX company, ST was plenty. We shot full sensor 3:2 so VFX had more scene information for tracking.  
--
Elvis Ripley
Director/DP/Post
Tulsa, OK, USA
elvisripley.com


Re: VFX on Sony Venice: X-OCN XT or Raw?

Miga Bär
 

Hi Emmanuel, 

In my experience X-OCN XT is absolutely sufficient for any type of VFX work, especially when shooting 5.7K. Depending on the type of VFX work and your delivery format(s), X-OCN ST will even be good enough for a lot of different types of VFX work. For instance, if you don't have to pull incredibly specific keys, aren't shooting in extreme low-light conditions and you're not finishing for Dolby Cinema, there's a good chance that ST will do the trick for most shots. That being said, I would recommend to discuss with your VFX vendor what their experiences with the various X-OCN levels are and what their preference would be for this specific production. Maybe even run some tests to see when XT is really beneficial over ST. In my experience it really depends on the type of work done and your shooting conditions.  
As far as I know there are no reasons left to shoot RAW SQ on a Sony Venice. I've never tested them against each other but have also never seen that X-OCN XT didn't have enough information to get the job done. 

Best, 

Miga Bär
Workflow Consultancy
The Netherlands


Re: VFX on Sony Venice: X-OCN XT or Raw?

Emmanuel SUYS
 

 

 

From: <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of "Pawel Achtel, ACS" <pawel.achtel@...>

 

Any particular reason you would not shoot with a single camera?

It sounds like unnecessary complication, setup time and expense.

 

Greetings,

 

Filming with 2 and more cameras, on Features, TV-Dramas and Series, is almost standard nowadays.

 

Cheers Manny

 

Emmanuel SUYS 
Cinematography - Kinematografie - Photographie Cinématographique 
*16-35-HD-HiSpeed-UW 
*HiSpeed Operator- UW Operator 
*Digital On Set Supervision 
*European based 
- BVK
*Mobil +491734537858 *emmanuel at suys.de 

 

 


Re: VFX on Sony Venice: X-OCN XT or Raw?

Pawel Achtel, ACS
 

Ø  For an upcoming series we are using multiple Venice Cameras (1. Generation not the Venice2) and are planning to film most of the project in X-OCN ST.

Ø  Regarding the VFX shots, my understanding is that X-OCN XT is largely sufficient and has even a slight advantage over the Raw Format.

Ø  We are going initially for a 5.7K 16:9 (5674 x 3192): 23.98p framerate project. So, in Raw would be then having to end up on a 3.8K 16:9 (3840 x 2160): 23.98p Framerate.

Ø  Or am I missing something? What would be the advantage of going the Sony Raw route vs X-OCN XT? [Emmanuel SUYS]

 

Any particular reason you would not shoot with a single camera?

It sounds like unnecessary complication, setup time and expense.

 

Disclosure: My company makes 9x7 digital cinema cameras specifically designed for VFX plates, IMAX and Giant Screen.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Pawel Achtel ACS B.Eng.(Hons) M.Sc.

ACHTEL PTY LIMITED, ABN 52 134 895 417

“Sharp to the Edge”

 

Member of:

ACS Technical Committee

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IMAGO Technical Committee

 

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_,_


VFX on Sony Venice: X-OCN XT or Raw?

Emmanuel SUYS
 

Greetings,

 

For an upcoming series we are using multiple Venice Cameras (1. Generation not the Venice2) and are planning to film most of the project in X-OCN ST.

Regarding the VFX shots, my understanding is that X-OCN XT is largely sufficient and has even a slight advantage over the Raw Format.

We are going initially for a 5.7K 16:9 (5674 x 3192): 23.98p framerate project. So, in Raw would be then having to end up on a 3.8K 16:9 (3840 x 2160): 23.98p Framerate.

Or am I missing something? What would be the advantage of going the Sony Raw route vs X-OCN XT?

 

 

Appreciate any information/explanation or guidance.

 

Cheers,

Manny

 

Emmanuel SUYS 
Cinematography - Kinematografie - Photographie Cinématographique 
*16-35-HD-HiSpeed-UW 
*HiSpeed Operator- UW Operator 
*Digital On Set Supervision 
*European based 
- BVK
*Mobil +491734537858 *emmanuel at suys.de 

 


Sony Venice 2 Native Color Temperature

rafaroche@...
 

Hi everyone. Please, does anyone know what the native color temperature of the Venice 2 sensor is? Thanks a lot!


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

LE POULAIN Jean-Yves
 

Merci Lenaic, il n’y pas tant d’occasions de te fréquenter, en tt bien tt honneur bien sûr ; je crains d’oublier encore le mois prochain le drag and drop fatal.

Bonne soirée,

Jylp

 

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De : cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> De la part de Steven Gruen
Envoyé : mardi 5 avril 2022 16:14
À : cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Objet : Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Exposing S-log3 for hdr

 

>>High/Low Key was on the F55 and F5, not on the later cameras, which is a shame as it was my favourite tool

I agree. I don't know why Sony took away that brilliantly simple exposure tool in the most recent cameras. Maybe because no one praised it enough. If you're listening Sony, you how about bringing it back...

Steven Gruen
Camera
Paris, France 


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

Mitch Gross
 

Introduced on the F65. 

Mitch Gross
Prolycht Lighting
New York

On Apr 5, 2022, at 11:08 AM, Steven Gruen <scgruen@...> wrote:

>>High/Low Key was on the F55 and F5, not on the later cameras, which is a shame as it was my favourite tool

I agree. I don't know why Sony took away that brilliantly simple exposure tool in the most recent cameras. Maybe because no one praised it enough. If you're listening Sony, you how about bringing it back...

Steven Gruen
Camera
Paris, France 


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

Steven Gruen
 

>>High/Low Key was on the F55 and F5, not on the later cameras, which is a shame as it was my favourite tool

I agree. I don't know why Sony took away that brilliantly simple exposure tool in the most recent cameras. Maybe because no one praised it enough. If you're listening Sony, you how about bringing it back...

Steven Gruen
Camera
Paris, France 


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

George Hupka
 

High/Low Key was on the F55 and F5, not on the later cameras, which is a shame as it was my favourite tool shooting CineEI on documentaries.   I haven't looked at the Shogun Inferno, but it strikes me that something similar for HDR exposure would be very useful in the field.
--
----------
George Hupka
Director/DP
Saskatoon, Canada
Listmum, Cinematography Mailing List


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

Adam craig
 

Thanks  Nezih. I think you’re right. 

On 30 Mar 2022, at 19:21, Nezih Savaşkan via cml.news <nez=videosoul.co.uk@...> wrote:

It’s worth noting that, unless I’m mistaken (I might be thinking of another older model), the HDR feature of the Shogun Inferno isn’t proper HDR monitoring (as in, an slog3 to HLG or PQ or something transform), rather it’d a SDR feature that lets you shift what you’re viewing to “look into” the highlights shadows. A bit like the CineEI High/Low Key feature on the F55 and F5 (and FS7?).

I might be wrong though :)

-----------------------------------------------
Nezih Savaşkan
Director of Photography + Camera Operator
-----------------------------------------------


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

Nezih Savaşkan
 

It’s worth noting that, unless I’m mistaken (I might be thinking of another older model), the HDR feature of the Shogun Inferno isn’t proper HDR monitoring (as in, an slog3 to HLG or PQ or something transform), rather it’d a SDR feature that lets you shift what you’re viewing to “look into” the highlights shadows. A bit like the CineEI High/Low Key feature on the F55 and F5 (and FS7?).

I might be wrong though :)

-----------------------------------------------
Nezih Savaşkan
Director of Photography + Camera Operator
-----------------------------------------------


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

Adam craig
 

Thanks mate. That’s really useful 

On 30 Mar 2022, at 17:18, mkeegan via cml.news <mkeegan=netflix.com@...> wrote:



Hi Adam,

Not sure if this will help but we put together this guide to help some of our productions who were looking to deploy HDR from on set perspective. Hope it helps, the info it's just specific to Netflix more around overall best practices and considerations. 

 

https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/4409833378707-HDR-On-Set-Monitoring-Considerations-Best-Practices- 

 

Michael Keegan 

LA- Technology Partnerships @Netflix 


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

mkeegan@...
 

Hi Adam,

Not sure if this will help but we put together this guide to help some of our productions who were looking to deploy HDR from on set perspective. Hope it helps, the info it's just specific to Netflix more around overall best practices and considerations. 

 

https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/4409833378707-HDR-On-Set-Monitoring-Considerations-Best-Practices- 

 

Michael Keegan 

LA- Technology Partnerships @Netflix 


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

Adam craig
 

I’ve got an Atomos Shogun Inferno with its HDR engine under the hood, so I’m hoping to. 

On 30 Mar 2022, at 11:36, Nezih Savaşkan via cml.news <nez=videosoul.co.uk@...> wrote:

Do you need to monitor in HDR on location/set?

-----------------------------------------------
Nezih Savaşkan
Director of Photography + Camera Operator
-----------------------------------------------


Re: Exposing S-log3 for hdr

Nezih Savaşkan
 

Do you need to monitor in HDR on location/set?

-----------------------------------------------
Nezih Savaşkan
Director of Photography + Camera Operator
-----------------------------------------------


Exposing S-log3 for hdr

Adam craig
 

Hi all,

I’m heading off on a job shooting 4K 59.94p for HDR 1000nits deliverable.

Are there any pitfalls re correct exposure that I should be aware of.

Many thanks for any help

Adam Craig
Lighting Cameraman


Re: Best Color settings Resolve for stills

Charles Boileau
 

Hi Dick,

I second what Guy is saying. Using resolve here is not the way to go. You want to keep things in a photo/printing space. I do my own printing and manage film/vfx colors at work. So I have a bit of experience here. Any printer will assume that (if not specified) your images will be in sRGB. Especially, online ones. And the other issue here would be resolution coming out of Resolve... You can't really define anything here. Plus your colorspace might not be embedded properly. This might cause some errors with ICC profiles.

If you want to use LUTs, you can do so directly in Photoshop.

Cheers!
--
My views and opinions do not reflect the ones of my employer. Whatever I say here is just me talking!!!
Charles Boileau, ex-Cinematographer, ex-Colorist and now: Regional Lead Imaging Engineer at Technicolor.
Montreal, Québec, Canada.


Re: Best Color settings Resolve for stills

Guy Mastrion
 

However you get there, I would also suggest bringing the files into photoshop for final finishing and output for the printer. It’s going to be important to have a conversation with the printer and discuss the printing method. Just like cameras, printing presses and methods have their own unique characteristics. Newer digital presses are more like advanced ink jet printers than a traditional plate driven press. A new digital press is going to give you highly accurate representations of your images as you finish them, certain older but very high quality analogue presses will tend to get a slight gain on red, for instance, and it takes a really skilled pressmen to match your intent and even then it will not be 100%. The other variable factor in a traditional press is the layout of the book. Images on the same signature (a signature is 4 pages like a spread) will impact the color of all the images on that signature, so adjusting for one, will impact the rest. Who makes this decision will determine the look of your images as printed. If your images will appear on signatures with images not created by you, and not matching, will impact the look of any image on the signature, so who makes the call on the press is really important. See if you can have a chat with the pressmen/woman and learn the type of press, the make up of the book and how it will be run to work towards an agreeable outcome. I say agreeable as it will be the rare job that prints all of your images with the care as you put into rendering them. You can ask if they will pull a few proof sheets for you and then you can discuss how much control they have to meet your requested adjustments. You may find it necessary to adjust your images in photoshop to find a happy compromise — depending on the printing method and how the project will made on press.

I’m happy to discuss this further if it will be helpful -  you can email me directly guy@...
--
Guy Mastrion
Creative_Director_DP_Professor
www.linkedin.com/in/guymastrion
insta: gmastrion

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