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Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Graham Futerfas
 

Is it me, or does the Coke can look very orange in E?

I think D is a Panasonic camera. My experience is they push the red’s more.




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Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
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Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

mattryandp@...
 

E for me. Best dynamic range and skin tones for me. Only camera that doesn’t appear to clip in the skin.


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Bill Berner
 

G all the way for me.  I like the skin tone and texture. Seems to me that it also has the most subtlety in grey scale.  Really low noise level, too. Cleanest key, though I guess thats out of bounds for this test.

Sort of ironically, we can't make a judgement about the accuracy of the skin tone reproduction, since we don't have you in person to judge against, but ce' la vie.

I liked the color reproduction in the wide as well.  Looks very natural to me.

If the winner winds up being the Amira, does it get eliminated and we vote again?

Bill Berner
DP, NY/LA


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Mark Kenfield
 

An interesting test, thanks Colin. It's a shame about the keyed greenscreeen - I have no doubt that seeing keying artifacts is colouring my judgement of the different cameras.

For me, the winner is G.

It took a few watch-throughs before I could start ignoring the clear advantage in general image quality and the superior greenscreen key that it had. Once I was able to look past those more glaring differences, I found G to have the best balance of healthy, ruddy skintones, and a naturally rendered liptones. 

It's quite wild just how differently the cameras all render red.

From orange, to distinctly oversaturated, to distinctly undersaturated - the balance of the red clearly has huge repercussions for how a subject's lips, and the blood in their cheeks are rendered.

For me, G balanced them notably better than the rest. I would probably want to increase the saturation in G a little. But I feel like I could do that and still retain a naturally balanced face.

It is very interesting though, that most of the samples become objectionable in the wide-shot (when the skews of specific colours like red, become apparent). Taken in isolation, it's MUCH harder to judge based solely on each manufacturers rendering of skin.

Cheers,

Mark Kenfield
Cinematographer

0400 044 500


On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 05:36, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
Yes - exactly that. I posted previously (it was rushed and had a few problems) and people felt the green would influence colour perception too much so I keyed it out.

As for F: it is indeed in focus. But it is further away than the others (which obviously reveals something to those who want to think about it).

Colin Elves
DP, Berlin.



On 14 May 2019, at 18:34, Graham Futerfas <gfuterfas.cml@...> wrote:

Maybe I missed your earlier post… what’s the green fringing? Was it a green screen that you turned grey?

I like the color rendition on C, but I guess my favorite is G because its sharper and also seems to have good color overall. Maybe slightly under-saturated for my taste, but just by a small degree.

The color on E is pretty wild. Is F in focus? Not a fan of H.

Thanks for posting. Now I’m curious which ones I liked and which ones I didn’t.
-Graham



Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Colin Elves
 

Yes - exactly that. I posted previously (it was rushed and had a few problems) and people felt the green would influence colour perception too much so I keyed it out.

As for F: it is indeed in focus. But it is further away than the others (which obviously reveals something to those who want to think about it).

Colin Elves
DP, Berlin.



On 14 May 2019, at 18:34, Graham Futerfas <gfuterfas.cml@...> wrote:

Maybe I missed your earlier post… what’s the green fringing? Was it a green screen that you turned grey?

I like the color rendition on C, but I guess my favorite is G because its sharper and also seems to have good color overall. Maybe slightly under-saturated for my taste, but just by a small degree.

The color on E is pretty wild. Is F in focus? Not a fan of H.

Thanks for posting. Now I’m curious which ones I liked and which ones I didn’t.
-Graham



Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Colin Elves
 

Day after tomorrow? I dunno. What’s a good length of of time to allow answers come in? If you’re desperate email me off list and I’ll let you know. But I want people to vote first! Let’s keep this game honest people!

Colin Elves
DP, Berlin.

On 14 May 2019, at 20:57, Fahnon <fahnon@...> wrote:

When will you make the big reveal?  I'm super curious as to what was what...






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Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Keith Putnam
 

D is far and away the clear winner both on skintone and the other colors in the wide shot. In comparison all the others feel like they lack bit depth. They feel "thin".
Presuming D's the Amira (and I'll certainly be surprised if it isn't), I feel like all this has really done is illustrate that cheaping out produces cheap-looking results.

If forced to choose, though, I'll take G and then E.

Keith Putnam
DIT/DP, NYC


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Fahnon
 

When will you make the big reveal?  I'm super curious as to what was what...


On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 2:32 PM Graham Futerfas <gfuterfas.cml@...> wrote:
Maybe I missed your earlier post… what’s the green fringing? Was it a green screen that you turned grey?

I like the color rendition on C, but I guess my favorite is G because its sharper and also seems to have good color overall. Maybe slightly under-saturated for my taste, but just by a small degree.

The color on E is pretty wild. Is F in focus? Not a fan of H.

Thanks for posting. Now I’m curious which ones I liked and which ones I didn’t.
-Graham




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Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
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--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Graham Futerfas
 

Maybe I missed your earlier post… what’s the green fringing? Was it a green screen that you turned grey?

I like the color rendition on C, but I guess my favorite is G because its sharper and also seems to have good color overall. Maybe slightly under-saturated for my taste, but just by a small degree.

The color on E is pretty wild. Is F in focus? Not a fan of H.

Thanks for posting. Now I’m curious which ones I liked and which ones I didn’t.
-Graham




---
Graham Futerfas
Director of Photography
Los Angeles, CA
www.GFuterfas.com
---


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

John Tarver
 

Interesting to see the other votes as they come in.  Looking forward to seeing what's behind "door #1"!

John Tarver,csc
DP in Toronto


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Colin Elves
 

No need to worry, just celebrate the fact you’re a cheap date.

I don’t think it will be a huge strain to adjust the skin tones to match the Amira. It’s mostly subtle tweaks I think.

That’s assuming the Amira is the most popular of course...

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin



On 14 May 2019, at 17:38, Fahnon <fahnon@...> wrote:

Also worried I just shat on Arri in favor of one of the less respected players. The next step in all this would be to see if the less expensive cams can match the Arri and more importantly how much work goes into that.


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Fahnon
 

I'm actually finding it a challenge to react to color alone and not the apparent sharpness/focus differences, but I'd take A, D and G looking at the wider shots.  Also worried I just shat on Arri in favor of one of the less respected players.  The next step in all this would be to see if the less expensive cams can match the Arri and more importantly how much work goes into that.


On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 11:13 AM Everett Gorel <everett@...> wrote:
Well, this is interesting (if not more confusing) when you include the wide shot. D and E looked best to me in terms of flesh tones on the CU's only, but when viewing the bigger picture, E is just horrendous. Coke can is orange, plants olive... reminds me of the Sony F3. Sorry, no slight to the manufacturer intended. In fact, we still have one in our inventory, and it is flattering to people's faces; just not at all accurate in reproducing colors. It think it shoots OGB:-)

So for me, D is the clear winner in terms of both a very pleasing flesh tone (albeit slightly warm, which I generally prefer), while yielding a nice overall and accurate rendering of other colors and objects in the wider frame. Though perhaps a tad contrasty and challenged to fully handle facial highlights, since this was not a completely controlled test with framing and camera position changing (which could influence how light was hitting the subject relative to lens placement), I didn't allow that to color my overall impression too much. 

On the other side of the spectrum, my least favorites are B and G (with flesh tones looking a bit sallow to me, yellow and green respectively), and the model's skin on H skews magenta with a very flat overall image quality.

Ok, I've probably made an ass out of myself in terms of fragging a nice camera and championing one that may be widely considered as an inferior model, but after all, that's what blind tests are about. Honesty, fun... and sometimes, even surprises. Just my .02.

Again, thanks for setting all this up. I know how much time and effort folks like you and Goeff put into these tests that greatly benefit our whole community. Thank you, thank you, thank you.



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Everett Gorel
 

Well, this is interesting (if not more confusing) when you include the wide shot. D and E looked best to me in terms of flesh tones on the CU's only, but when viewing the bigger picture, E is just horrendous. Coke can is orange, plants olive... reminds me of the Sony F3. Sorry, no slight to the manufacturer intended. In fact, we still have one in our inventory, and it is flattering to people's faces; just not at all accurate in reproducing colors. It think it shoots OGB:-)

So for me, D is the clear winner in terms of both a very pleasing flesh tone (albeit slightly warm, which I generally prefer), while yielding a nice overall and accurate rendering of other colors and objects in the wider frame. Though perhaps a tad contrasty and challenged to fully handle facial highlights, since this was not a completely controlled test with framing and camera position changing (which could influence how light was hitting the subject relative to lens placement), I didn't allow that to color my overall impression too much. 

On the other side of the spectrum, my least favorites are B and G (with flesh tones looking a bit sallow to me, yellow and green respectively), and the model's skin on H skews magenta with a very flat overall image quality.

Ok, I've probably made an ass out of myself in terms of fragging a nice camera and championing one that may be widely considered as an inferior model, but after all, that's what blind tests are about. Honesty, fun... and sometimes, even surprises. Just my .02.

Again, thanks for setting all this up. I know how much time and effort folks like you and Goeff put into these tests that greatly benefit our whole community. Thank you, thank you, thank you.


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Colin Elves
 

I’m so sorry everyone! There was a bad link in there! (God I’m crap at this).

New link below.

https://vimeo.com/335478017

Vote here: https://cml.news/g/cml-raw-log-hdr/vote?pollid=5666


Sorry! 


Colin Elves

DP/Terrible Camera Tester!

Berlin


new poll has been created:

Okay, so... Fairly evidently I messed up when rushing this out the door. I've now taken a bit more time, keyed out the green (more or less)... fixed a couple more issues with white balance and replaced the shot that was overly soft.

 

The Cameras are all in the same order. So if people want to vote on the new version, lovely, very much appreciated. If they still stand by their previous decision then also great. 

 

Sorry about the slapdash version before. 

 

As before, 8 cameras under £10K (plus the Amira for control): Amira, FS7, C200, EVA1, GH5s, Ursa Mini Pro, Red Raven, Kinefinity Terra 4K.


https://vimeo.com/335478017


Thanks

 

Colin Elves

DP, Berlin

1. Camera A
2. Camera B
3. Camera C
4. Camera D
5. Camera E
6. Camera F
7. Camera G
8. Camera H

Vote Now



Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Fahnon
 

I'm unauthorized to view the video.


On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 9:25 AM Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

Okay, so... Fairly evidently I messed up when rushing this out the door. I've now taken a bit more time, keyed out the green (more or less)... fixed a couple more issues with white balance and replaced the shot that was overly soft.

 

The Cameras are all in the same order. So if people want to vote on the new version, lovely, very much appreciated. If they still stand by their previous decision then also great. 

 

Sorry about the slapdash version before. 

 

As before, 8 cameras under £10K (plus the Amira for control): Amira, FS7, C200, EVA1, GH5s, Ursa Mini Pro, Red Raven, Kinefinity Terra 4K.

https://vimeo.com/335478017

 

Thanks

 

Colin Elves

DP, Berlin

1. Camera A
2. Camera B
3. Camera C
4. Camera D
5. Camera E
6. Camera F
7. Camera G
8. Camera H

Vote Now



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

 

You need to Change the privacy settings!

Michael

Michael J Sanders

London based Cinematographer/DP 
Mobile: +44 (0) 7976 269818   


On 14 May 2019, at 14:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

Okay, so... Fairly evidently I messed up when rushing this out the door. I've now taken a bit more time, keyed out the green (more or less)... fixed a couple more issues with white balance and replaced the shot that was overly soft.

 

The Cameras are all in the same order. So if people want to vote on the new version, lovely, very much appreciated. If they still stand by their previous decision then also great. 

 

Sorry about the slapdash version before. 

 

As before, 8 cameras under £10K (plus the Amira for control): Amira, FS7, C200, EVA1, GH5s, Ursa Mini Pro, Red Raven, Kinefinity Terra 4K.

https://vimeo.com/335478017

 

Thanks

 

Colin Elves

DP, Berlin

1. Camera A
2. Camera B
3. Camera C
4. Camera D
5. Camera E
6. Camera F
7. Camera G
8. Camera H

Vote Now


Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Colin Elves
 

Okay, so... Fairly evidently I messed up when rushing this out the door. I've now taken a bit more time, keyed out the green (more or less)... fixed a couple more issues with white balance and replaced the shot that was overly soft.

 

The Cameras are all in the same order. So if people want to vote on the new version, lovely, very much appreciated. If they still stand by their previous decision then also great. 

 

Sorry about the slapdash version before. 

 

As before, 8 cameras under £10K (plus the Amira for control): Amira, FS7, C200, EVA1, GH5s, Ursa Mini Pro, Red Raven, Kinefinity Terra 4K.

https://vimeo.com/335478017

 

Thanks

 

Colin Elves

DP, Berlin

Results

See Who Responded


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Fahnon
 

Took a look from the original file downloaded from Vimeo, on an iMac Pro 5k screen.  I prefer A (which I suspect is Amira), C and G.  What's really interesting to me, is how differently these cameras replicate green, and how noisy B and F are in the green channel.  As others have noted, it really is hard to judge skin tones against the green background.

I own one of the cameras in the test, so I really hope I liked the one I spent money on!

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 3:47 PM Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

In February 2018 I organised a mini shootout of budget cameras (under €10k) in Berlin. I never released them as I messed up one of the cameras, didn’t have time to finalise etc etc. Anyway, I ended up getting into a discussion online about the colour science of one of them (some people felt the skin tones were too yellow) so I put together a quick comparison between the skin tones on all of them. 

 
I wasn’t intending to post it here, as I’m not sure it’s entirely worthy given the conditions and this being CML you have (rightly so) high standards, but the initial results on Facebook were interesting so I wanted to get the opinion of you honourable ladies and gentlemen. 
 
It’s 8 cameras: 
 
The Arri Amira,
Red Raven
Ursa Mini Pro (G1)
Sony FS7
Panasonic EVA1
Panasonic GH5s
Kinefinity Terra 4K
Canon C200
 
Details of the post processing and camera setup are on the vimeo link (same lens for all, same lighting and framing, Raw cameras were shooting Raw, Log cameras log, all processed in Resolve using ACES and appropriate IDT, Rec709 ODT) M18 through F1 as key, poly bounce as fill.
 
 
I’d love to get people’s opinions on what they consider to be the nicest skin tones! 
 
Thank you!
 
 
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin

1. A
2. B
3. C
4. D
5. E
6. F
7. G
8. H

Vote Now



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Fahnon
 

I'm assuming the Amira is the control.  

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:00 AM <dhfilm@...> wrote:
I am curious as to how the AMIRA made it into this comparison of under 10K Euro comparison?  Has the AMIRA price dropped in Berlin that much?

Dave Huntley
DP Philadelphia



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Everett Gorel
 

At this point, E and D capture the nicest flesh tones to me, in that order.
A, C, H, G all seem to skew either blue or magenta (in general, in the shadows, or both)
F and B flesh tones both appear to skew towards yellow.

Also, E and H win for dynamic range, as the flesh tones on the others (assuming proper exposure) cannot hold the highlights.
So all in all, I would vote for E... even though I seem to be a minority of one here:-) Not the first time!

Everett Gorel
Director/ DP
Houston, Texas

701 - 720 of 1984