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Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Mitch Gross
 

On Dec 28, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Mark Weingartner, ASC via cml.news <vfxmark=me.com@...> wrote:

Most of us DPs are driving Porsches with the occasional Maserati or Ferrari - Camrys are for writers :-)



Mark wins line of the day.

Mitch Gross
New York


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Mark Weingartner, ASC
 

It is worth remembering:
1. we try not to be openly insulting on CML… it does not foster an environment of participation
This is not quite the same as some other groups some of us participate in.

2. This is an international forum with many people in many markets… some of us with quite a few decades of fighting political battles that appear to be technical ones, and vice versa.  Notwithstanding the high regard many Digital Imaging Technicians hold themselves, the fact remains that it is the Director of Photography who is subject to the pressures from Production and Post, and who has to weigh the merits of which choices to push for and how hard…  in many different departments.  DPs don’t have the luxury of blaming their DIT for choosing a workflow that displeases someone or costs money that wasn’t budgeted for - ultimately the blame - and consequences - are laid at our door.

3. It is worth considering the possibility that many of us "fragile old fart DPs” actually know the markets we work in and know “what the traffic will bear.”  Some of us old-timers are actually the people who push the tech forward pretty hard.

That said, a few years ago I lost a job because I insisted that we shoot it correctly, which in this case meant using three Alexa 65s,  and in the end, the Download/black level restoration/lay-off to drives on distant location time and personnel costs…    …ended up costing me the job.   They shot it another way… and it showed on the screen - but someone else took home the paycheck.   

There is still a lot of content being released in HD…    and there are lots and lots of jobs that we can light or control well enough to be able to make our exposure choices on-set (the way we did for those few years that this industry survived before the invention of DITs) that benefit from a lighter-weight log-based encoding.  Some of those jobs are the ones that might be reaching for the Sigma as a solution for something.

Most of us DPs are driving Porsches with the occasional Maserati or Ferrari - Camrys are for writers :-)

Mark Weingartner
Los Angeles-based DP
Intermittent List-mum






On 27Dec, 2020, at 23:56 15PM, Adrian Jebef via cml.news <adrianjebef=yahoo.com@...> wrote:

lol

I swear these threads always derail into a bunch of old farts yelling at each other to slow down. Like, “Don’t push the Camery past 65 or Momma gonna find out!” It seems y’all know best: let off the gas.


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Clark Graff
 

Well said.


The purist in me says raw all the time, and the more evolved realist knows when to pull those punches, without sacrificing one ounce of artistic integrity.

Clark Graff

VFX Supervisor, Production Designer, DIT, Propellerhead

SoCal.

 


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Theo Stanley
 

I swear these threads always derail into a bunch of old farts yelling at each other to slow down.
I think you are missing their message, or not able to see and think beyond yours.

As a youngish fart who is concerned with the entire dynamics of production and post, I think it makes sense to know the full value of every decision that sets up your project flow.

I understand the notion and part of me applauds people that rail for maximum resolution and raw files all the time as that represents some technical level of aiming to be master of their craft, and the purity of that as a concept.

But I think there is an evolved experiential viewpoint in knowing the right moment when to burden and stress a production and post workflow with that approach.

When you get to the end product, and arrive at the same place, an image without compromise, but walked a lighter more efficient path to get there, and you do this comparatively again and again, there is certainly something smarter in knowing what you can get away with, as you truly know your tools, and when it makes sense to insist on raw, or when you can lead things to the same end with less burden.

The purist in me says raw all the time, and the more evolved realist knows when to pull those punches, without sacrificing one ounce of artistic integrity.

If I just stayed in my corner and did not think holistically, or care about the impact of these decisions down the line, I would be more comfortable with the purist approach.

Theo Stanley
Director / Dp
Nyc

mobile device

On Dec 28, 2020, at 2:56 AM, Adrian Jebef via cml.news <adrianjebef=yahoo.com@...> wrote:


Re: Data offload costs (was Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp)

Guy Mastrion
 

I just had a discussion last night with a producer after spending a few hours baby sitting nearly a full TB download with more on the way. Would have been so much more efficient and less expensive to ship an SSD drive. I’m shooting a few scenes tomorrow as an insert for a public relations piece then pulling various sources files into an edit and shipping back to the producer.  I’ve got a couple of fresh SSD’s coming in today to ship the project on once complete.

--
Guy Mastrion
Creative_Director_DP_Professor
www.linkedin.com/in/guymastrion
insta: gmastrion


Re: Sigma fp

Noel Sterrett
 

On 12/28/20 8:57 AM, Mitch Gross wrote:
But I think that most of the time I would prefer to connect the Sigma FP to a small 5” Atomos or
BMD recorder to capture a compressed RAW that’s far more reasonable to deal with than an
uncompressed RAW file. Even on a gimbal you need a monitor to see what you’re doing.
I agree. I just bought a BMD both for record and monitor. But I also got a few T5's for uncompressed
green things.

Nice that the camera can do both.


Re: Sigma fp

Mitch Gross
 

I will add that I am certainly not anti-RAW. There are certainly times where it is the right tool for the job. But I think that most of the time I would prefer to connect the Sigma FP to a small 5” Atomos or BMD recorder to capture a compressed RAW that’s far more reasonable to deal with than an uncompressed RAW file. Even on a gimbal you need a monitor to see what you’re doing. 

Mitch Gross
New York

On Dec 28, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Noel Sterrett <noel@...> wrote:

On 12/28/20 5:53 AM, Paul Curtis wrote:
... the fp is just a tiny sensor in a box, and as i understand there is no headroom for
compression onboard.
Exactly.

It will always be the case that processing is faster/better/cheaper off camera than on. If you want
to record standard compression schemes in real time, just add an Atomos or BMD recorder. If you can
wait until offload, then compress, if you like, during transfer.

I have long felt that we will get to the point that, like the eye, the sensor and lens will become
one. The Sigma fp is a step in that direction.


Re: Sigma fp

Noel Sterrett
 

On 12/28/20 5:53 AM, Paul Curtis wrote:
I would like the next fp to dump out the whole 6K sensor or offer other crops of it.
I agree. The quality of the 6K to 4K downres is limited by the processor power, and represents a
form of compression. Better to just push 6K out to an SSD.

One could argue it is actually an APS-C camera.


Re: Sigma fp

Noel Sterrett
 

On 12/28/20 5:53 AM, Paul Curtis wrote:
... the fp is just a tiny sensor in a box, and as i understand there is no headroom for
compression onboard.
Exactly.

It will always be the case that processing is faster/better/cheaper off camera than on. If you want
to record standard compression schemes in real time, just add an Atomos or BMD recorder. If you can
wait until offload, then compress, if you like, during transfer.

I have long felt that we will get to the point that, like the eye, the sensor and lens will become
one. The Sigma fp is a step in that direction.


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Jan Klier
 

One refreshing thing about CML for me is, that a large part of the group that participates in the discussions do have deep backgrounds in their field and speak from actual experiences on top tier productions, or are the people who literally wrote the book on the topic. Something dearly missing from many other online forums.

 

There is of course something good about youthful enthusiasm and to hell with the old ways. Occasionally you have to try and validate that the principles still hold. Occasionally a breakthrough happens, most of the time it ends in a head-on crash though. Part of the process.

 

Respect is an earned thing. You can add to it, or you can kill it in an instant. My first job out of college, I worked for a young hot-shot VP of Engineering. He was good at telling stories and sounded impressive. He always seemed to know the details and made it work. 9 months into the job though he tripped and stated a tech spec as if it were a fact, when it was easily discernable as a huge inflation. In that instant I lost all respect for him, as someone who just blabs to impress but actually doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Not long after I left the company. The experience stuck with me ever since.

 

I appreciate that most of what has been said in this thread was based on relevant experiences, backed by verifiable and believable details. The rest seemed to be YouTube personality success fast-tracking that speaks in general terms and large words and gets old fast.

 

The Brits like to say ‘Mind The Gap’. I think around here maybe we should say ‘Mind The Facts’. Transfer speeds, time to turn around files, budgets, and schedules are generally factual items any production small or large is up against.

 

Jan Klier

DP/Colorist NYC

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Adrian Jebef via cml.news

Sorry some of you don’t care. Sorry Sigma released a camera that is too powerful. Sorry Geoff doesn’t have any DIT friends with a new computer. And sorry if I offend some fragile DP ego. Oh well that’s the film biz for ya. Ya can’t have it all. Maybe Sigma will add HD ProRes Log recording in the mark ii.

 

 


Re: Sigma fp

Pekka Riikonen
 

There's been some tests with Sigma fp.  Almost a year ago Evin Grant did the 2020 large format camera shootout (blind) where he put Sigma fp among all the heavy hitters like Alexa LF, Red Monstro and Sony Venice, etc.  It was quite brutal (https://vimeo.com/388857434).  Sigma fp just wasn't ready yet, the firmware had bugs and the color was off.  Those issues were fixed subsequently.  I've noticed that in every big firmware upgrade they've also re-profiled the camera, which is a sign they're still improving it.  Recently I saw this review (in spanish) that also matched it with Alexa: https://youtu.be/aSBgrd-YFV4?t=1222

As far as the dynamic range goes, Sigma claims 12.5 stops and it is around 12 stops.  Sigma says that ISO 800 has about 6 stops above middle grey and about 6.5 stops below.  It's dual ISO and ISO 3200 is cleaner than ISO 1600 as a result.

I'm not going to repeat the issues the camera has but one issue that's good to know if you shoot raw with this camera is that the latest 2.0 firmware has a bug where the color mode OFF setting affects also the cDNG raw files even though the color modes are not supposed to.  I reported this to Sigma but they indicated that this is intentional.  So if you shoot raw set the color mode to any other value except OFF, and if you do set it to OFF, keep it OFF in all shots or you'll have color mismatches shot to shot.

I'll add that Sigma fp is great as a webcam.  It doesn't require any additional hardware or software.  Just plug-in the USB cable and the camera appears as any other webcam and will work out of the box with Zoom for example.

--
Pekka Riikonen
Helsinki, Finland


Re: Data offload costs (was Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp)

Bruce Allen
 

Michael I 100% agree on the joy of Samsung T5 or similar SSDs (more drop-proof than drives too!) and how they pay for themselves and delight people.

I use multiple 860 EVOs which are decent, inexpensive, and offer 4TB capacity. Then I put them in cheap lightweight translucent cases that soothe airport security because they can see what they are.

I believe T5 and 860 series get around 500MB/sec...

Hopefully we soon move to the 2000MB/sec ones built on faster PCIe not SATA technology - just need them to be cheaper. Then Pawel's uncompressed dream perhaps can become reality... of course we'd also need nice big 16TB or 32TB drives. I easily blow through 4TB / day on Alexa LF.

Bruce Allen
Director & VFX supervisor
Los Angeles


Re: Sigma fp

Paul Curtis
 

On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:17, Bruce Allen <boacinema@...> wrote:
So my vote for the Sigma fp’s next version would be light raw compression onboard please. Even if it makes it a bit bigger.
This thread has derailed totally so it's nice to see a fp comment!

I would like the next fp to dump out the whole 6K sensor or offer other crops of it.

Whilst i understand the fierce my pixel is bigger than your pixel debate going on, the fp is just a tiny sensor in a box, and as i understand there is no headroom for compression onboard. There's no fan, it doesn't run too hot and it doesn't overheat. But it is not, never, a long form recorder - there are many better choices.

Uncompressed DNG is fine for a lot of cases and when you offload you can offload via SlimRAW straight to lossless compressed DNG and save quite a bit - so the offload process isn't so bad. You can very easily swap standard SSDs.

I spoke to them about adding a curve to the 10 bit version to store all 12 bits but it wasn't something the hardware could do, at that time.

For a low budget indie filmmaker (which i think is the intended audience) it offers fantastic quality. As a crash cam, or a C cam on a larger production it can work well too.

But the biggest thing - i'd like Sigma to open source the OS of the camera to 3rd parties. They are the only manufacturer that could do this as they're not protected a line. I am aware of an SDK in the pipeline but i have no idea what that does and doesn't allow.

Whoever opens up their camera OS and allows access to all hardware will be laughing in that indie/custom market

cheers
Paul

Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK


Data offload costs (was Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp)

 

Interestingly by default if I’m supplying drives I’ll now just supply SSDs (either T5 or Sandisk).  When clients baulk at the cost I just send them the difference in time to offload a card to SSD and to spinning drives - and then the cost of an hours overtime for the crew that would have to wait around.   

Although what usually gets them is that they won’t be able to leave until the data is offloaded.   Once they have seen they can go home quicker with SSDs it’s never usually an issue afterwards.

Michael Sanders: 

London based Cinematographer/Director of Photography.

reel/credits/kit: www.mjsanders.co.uk
direct email: michael@...
m: +44 07976 269818


On 28 Dec 2020, at 10:08, Bruce Allen <boacinema@...> wrote:

It’s NOT yet standard for producers to buy a stack of ultra-fast M.2 SSD drives (in triplicate). And that’s what you need for a proper backup strategy with very high data rates.


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Bruce Allen
 

RE the Sigma fp... I hope they do a mk.2 with less rolling shutter (using an updated Sony sensor) and full sensor readout mode (the whole 3:2 area, pixel for pixel, not a weird 6K to 4K “Raw” downsample). I would buy that!

Next request would be both good autofocus AND a manual remote follow focus accessory that works for Sigma’s line of lenses with built-in motors (surely the Sigma camera can talk to the Sigma lenses and tell them to rack smoothly when you move a knob!). That would be a nice tiny setup that pros could tolerate as C camera.

RE: data rates in general - I don’t think it’s fair to call DPs asking for reasonable data rates “old farts”.

It’s NOT yet standard for producers to buy a stack of ultra-fast M.2 SSD drives (in triplicate). And that’s what you need for a proper backup strategy with very high data rates.

We can all push towards helping producers understand the benefits of less compression and faster storage - while still acknowledging reality. I wouldn’t want to use anything with a higher datarate than Alexa LF RAW for the promos I do right now.

I am personally not a fan of REDCODE at high compression rates (noise goes haywire and blotchy).

But I am ALSO not a fan of spending the night after a long shoot trying to get everything backed up so you can make your flight with an intact backup set.

Pre-COVID I co-directed some promos for Netflix for Bridgerton (one is playing on Times Square now a year later)... awesome but my evening after the shoot consisted of DIT handing me a two giant G-RAIDs, then me setting up my extra-fast SSDs (which I bought at my own expense) to backup, then doing a nervous dance until dawn when I headed straight to Heathrow to try to get to Sundance to make my screening. Backup finished with maybe 40 minutes to spare.

I do actually remember thinking “glad this was Alexa LF raw... not Alexa 65 raw!”)

You want crew to be able to get backups done fast. I do not want the DIT (or me!) to miss the fun part of the camaraderie of filmmaking and chatting to everyone... just because someone wants them to spend every night backing up uncompressed footage that will end up heavily compressed and downsampled to below the resolution it was shot at anyway.

So my vote for the Sigma fp’s next version would be light raw compression onboard please. Even if it makes it a bit bigger.

Bruce Allen
Director & VFX supervisor
Los Angeles


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Geoff Boyle
 

I swear these threads always derail into a bunch of old farts yelling at each other to slow down

 

Oh dear, once again, these old farts have been pushing the technology to its limits for far longer than you’ve been alive.

The thing is, we’ve learnt from that experience.

We know what the technology is capable of but we also know that to survive in this business we have to give the clients what they want.

I shot the first NAB promo for the Quantel DPE 5000 at MPC in 1978/9, I could list the history but it’s a waste of time. I’ll stop there.

What am I shooting with at the moment? Err, a 12K compressed RAW camera, usually shooting at Q0 the highest data rate.

The thing is, that works for me but I also understand the realities of production, something you clearly don’t.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

Become a CML Patron https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=43292735

 

 


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Adrian Jebef
 

lol

I swear these threads always derail into a bunch of old farts yelling at each other to slow down. Like, “Don’t push the Camery past 65 or Momma gonna find out!” It seems y’all know best: let off the gas.

Sorry some of you don’t care. Sorry Sigma released a camera that is too powerful. Sorry Geoff doesn’t have any DIT friends with a new computer. And sorry if I offend some fragile DP ego. Oh well that’s the film biz for ya. Ya can’t have it all. Maybe Sigma will add HD ProRes Log recording in the mark ii.

Adrian Jebef
DIT







On Dec 27, 2020, at 10:46 PM, Maxwell Geoffrey <maxwell@...> wrote:


Pawel,

     While do agree with most of what you’re saying from a technical standpoint, I think you’re missing the point that Mitch and Geoff are making.
     Firstly, while uncompressed RAW is certainly a gold standard in terms of getting the absolute highest quality recording from a given camera sensor, the files are bigger and do require more attention to be paid to them in post to ensure that the images shot on set are what actually gets delivered in a final deliverable.  Compressed (non-RAW) recordings will work seamlessly in a REC 709 workflow with almost any NLE and grading application, simply requiring a show LUT or power grade to achieve a finished image.  No attention needs to be paid to ensuring that the proper metadata for ISO, white balance, and gamma curve are being used for each shot, and unlike RAW, the shots don’t require any post production noise reduction.  All of this is completely unfeasible on shoots with faster turnarounds, regardless of budget, but especially on lower budget productions.
     Moreover, the space savings of not shooting RAW, no matter how insignificant they may seem on paper or how cheap storage media becomes, ultimately translate to more shooting time on set, less money spent on drives for backups, or both.  Personally, I’d much rather work with uncompressed RAW that was encoded as 12 bit log, because the 25% smaller files compared to 16 bit linear mean that I get a fourth take on a card if I need it or more later if I don’t, and frankly, I can’t think of a single time when I haven’t been able to roll off the highlights in a grade to my liking because a few extra pixels were encoded at (for example) code value 4071 instead of whatever the 16 bit linear equivalent of 4071.25 may have been.
     In a realistic situation, shooting a short turnaround project on a camera like the C300 Mark III and choosing to shoot 10 bit XF-AVC at 410Mbps over the 12 bit 1Gbps compressed RAW nets me 144% more recording time and a 59% savings in media costs, and if I want higher quality, I can shoot at 810Mbps and still net 12% more recording time and offer a space savings of 19%.  Both of these options save the headache of shooting RAW and then having to oversee the entire post production color management pipeline, which is frankly nonexistent on this kind of project.
     To wrap up on less of a technical context, while I do agree with you that DPs should definitely understand the technicalities of the entire image creation and finishing pipelines, those technicalities often don’t matter nearly as much as we sometimes like to think they do.  As much as technical testing may be a part of our job in pre-production, what ultimately gets seen and gets us hired again are the images we shoot on set, and if they don’t move people or serve the story well, then who cares what bit depth or codec the source files were?  Just my thoughts.

Best Wishes,

Maxwell Geoffrey
DP | Colorist
New York

On Dec 27, 2020, at 18:00, Pawel Achtel ACS <pawel.achtel@...> wrote:



Ø  [Mitch Gross] Uncompressed RAW is the best quality — so what? It is a more burdensome workflow because it does not deliver an immediate result in the form most clients want and it requires more memory which means more time in transfers.

You are confusing two things: Log curve (which saves very little space) and compression (which requires additional compression in camera and decompression in post).

 

Log, or let’s call it in general: input curve, can easily travel as metadata or be applied in edit/viewing environment. There is negligible overhead of doing so. It doesn’t need to be “backed-in”. The size benefit of log raw vs. linear raw is relatively minor.

 

Compressed raw requires more powerful hardware (GPU), not less. In particular on a notebook. But, Sigma fp offers both compressed formats and uncompressed DNG. You can chose. Compatibility wise: uncompressed Cinema DNG can be readily used in any NLE and workflow tools and it is more compatible than any compressed raw. For example, BRAW is not widely supported on anything but Resolve and even Resolve requires expensive GPU. RED RAW requires decent GPU too.

Ø  [Geoff Boyle] Of course we need objective measurements but ultimately we work in a world where taste is more important than fact.

Yes, but if we don’t change it no one else will. It amazes me how many DOPs do not know how to produce or read MTF graph or measure dynamic range or measure colour accuracy or gamut of a camera. As part of the industry we need to stick to the fact and objectivity. It is important.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Pawel Achtel ACS B.Eng.(Hons) M.Sc.

“Sharp to the Edge”

 

ACHTEL PTY LIMITED, ABN 52 134 895 417

Website: www.achtel.com

Mobile: 040 747 2747 (overseas: +61 4 0747 2747)

Mail: PO BOX 557, Rockdale, NSW 2216, Australia

Address: RA 913 Coles Bay Rd., Coles Bay, TAS 7215, Australia

Location: S 42° 0'14.40"S, E 148°14'47.13"

Email: Pawel.Achtel@...

Facebook: facebook.com/PawelAchtel

Twitter: twitter.com/PawelAchtel

Skype: Pawel.Achtel


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Maxwell Geoffrey
 

Pawel,

     While do agree with most of what you’re saying from a technical standpoint, I think you’re missing the point that Mitch and Geoff are making.
     Firstly, while uncompressed RAW is certainly a gold standard in terms of getting the absolute highest quality recording from a given camera sensor, the files are bigger and do require more attention to be paid to them in post to ensure that the images shot on set are what actually gets delivered in a final deliverable.  Compressed (non-RAW) recordings will work seamlessly in a REC 709 workflow with almost any NLE and grading application, simply requiring a show LUT or power grade to achieve a finished image.  No attention needs to be paid to ensuring that the proper metadata for ISO, white balance, and gamma curve are being used for each shot, and unlike RAW, the shots don’t require any post production noise reduction.  All of this is completely unfeasible on shoots with faster turnarounds, regardless of budget, but especially on lower budget productions.
     Moreover, the space savings of not shooting RAW, no matter how insignificant they may seem on paper or how cheap storage media becomes, ultimately translate to more shooting time on set, less money spent on drives for backups, or both.  Personally, I’d much rather work with uncompressed RAW that was encoded as 12 bit log, because the 25% smaller files compared to 16 bit linear mean that I get a fourth take on a card if I need it or more later if I don’t, and frankly, I can’t think of a single time when I haven’t been able to roll off the highlights in a grade to my liking because a few extra pixels were encoded at (for example) code value 4071 instead of whatever the 16 bit linear equivalent of 4071.25 may have been.
     In a realistic situation, shooting a short turnaround project on a camera like the C300 Mark III and choosing to shoot 10 bit XF-AVC at 410Mbps over the 12 bit 1Gbps compressed RAW nets me 144% more recording time and a 59% savings in media costs, and if I want higher quality, I can shoot at 810Mbps and still net 12% more recording time and offer a space savings of 19%.  Both of these options save the headache of shooting RAW and then having to oversee the entire post production color management pipeline, which is frankly nonexistent on this kind of project.
     To wrap up on less of a technical context, while I do agree with you that DPs should definitely understand the technicalities of the entire image creation and finishing pipelines, those technicalities often don’t matter nearly as much as we sometimes like to think they do.  As much as technical testing may be a part of our job in pre-production, what ultimately gets seen and gets us hired again are the images we shoot on set, and if they don’t move people or serve the story well, then who cares what bit depth or codec the source files were?  Just my thoughts.

Best Wishes,

Maxwell Geoffrey
DP | Colorist
New York

On Dec 27, 2020, at 18:00, Pawel Achtel ACS <pawel.achtel@...> wrote:



Ø  [Mitch Gross] Uncompressed RAW is the best quality — so what? It is a more burdensome workflow because it does not deliver an immediate result in the form most clients want and it requires more memory which means more time in transfers.

You are confusing two things: Log curve (which saves very little space) and compression (which requires additional compression in camera and decompression in post).

 

Log, or let’s call it in general: input curve, can easily travel as metadata or be applied in edit/viewing environment. There is negligible overhead of doing so. It doesn’t need to be “backed-in”. The size benefit of log raw vs. linear raw is relatively minor.

 

Compressed raw requires more powerful hardware (GPU), not less. In particular on a notebook. But, Sigma fp offers both compressed formats and uncompressed DNG. You can chose. Compatibility wise: uncompressed Cinema DNG can be readily used in any NLE and workflow tools and it is more compatible than any compressed raw. For example, BRAW is not widely supported on anything but Resolve and even Resolve requires expensive GPU. RED RAW requires decent GPU too.

Ø  [Geoff Boyle] Of course we need objective measurements but ultimately we work in a world where taste is more important than fact.

Yes, but if we don’t change it no one else will. It amazes me how many DOPs do not know how to produce or read MTF graph or measure dynamic range or measure colour accuracy or gamut of a camera. As part of the industry we need to stick to the fact and objectivity. It is important.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Pawel Achtel ACS B.Eng.(Hons) M.Sc.

“Sharp to the Edge”

 

ACHTEL PTY LIMITED, ABN 52 134 895 417

Website: www.achtel.com

Mobile: 040 747 2747 (overseas: +61 4 0747 2747)

Mail: PO BOX 557, Rockdale, NSW 2216, Australia

Address: RA 913 Coles Bay Rd., Coles Bay, TAS 7215, Australia

Location: S 42° 0'14.40"S, E 148°14'47.13"

Email: Pawel.Achtel@...

Facebook: facebook.com/PawelAchtel

Twitter: twitter.com/PawelAchtel

Skype: Pawel.Achtel


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Geoff Boyle
 

ask your DIT to run the Post numbers if you’re concerned about Budget and camera format.  Usually they’re the smartest tool in the shed.

 

Not my personal experience.

 

I’ll stick with JB’s experiences.

 

I was lucky enough to work mainly with RAW or film scans at much higher than needed resolutions but I generally worked on productions where 45 seconds was a long project and ones that had huge budgets. Regularly $1.5M in todays figures.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

Become a CML Patron https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=43292735

 

._,_


Re: Curves and Bit Depth - was Sigma fp

Mitch Gross
 

On Dec 27, 2020, at 9:18 PM, Adrian Jebef via cml.news <adrianjebef=yahoo.com@...> wrote:

y’all need to stop listening to the Crybabies out there and just shoot full rez, full quality every time. Unless of course y’all shooting weddings and reality tv.
I’m sure you were trying to be colloquial and casually humorous in your post, but with all due respect I have to say that if a DIT said that to a DP on most sets I’ve been around than that person would likely not be returning the next day. We are all professionals here and I know that Mr. Brawley knows of what he speaks and frankly we would all benefit to listen.

Mitch Gross
New York

221 - 240 of 1984