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Re: Kevin Shaw HDR lessons
Bentley Wong
Phone
On Jan 13, 2021, at 8:20 AM, "Video Assist Hungary" <balazs@...> wrote:
I’m just about to order it. How long is it? Is there any ‘practical’ parts I had to do myself or a laptop is enough? Thanks for the recommendation. Balazs Rozgonyi CEO Video assist hungary
On 2021. Jan 13., at 15:57, Andrew M. Richardson <richardsonmandrew@...> wrote:
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Re: Kevin Shaw HDR lessons
Kevin Shaw
Hi Balazs
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
13 classes total about 7.5 hours I think. There are 3 resolve dra archives/ projects if you want to follow along in the practical sessions. A decent laptop should work fine Best Kevin Shaw Colorist
On 13 Jan 2021, at 16:20, Video Assist Hungary <balazs@...> wrote:
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Re: Kevin Shaw HDR lessons
Video Assist Hungary
I’m just about to order it.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
How long is it? Is there any ‘practical’ parts I had to do myself or a laptop is enough? Thanks for the recommendation. Balazs Rozgonyi CEO Video assist hungary
On 2021. Jan 13., at 15:57, Andrew M. Richardson <richardsonmandrew@...> wrote:
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Re: Kevin Shaw HDR lessons
I had the pleasure of taking three of Kevin Shaw CSI's workshops in Toronto back in October 2018. Very comprehensive lessons without getting too technical or complicated. I would recommend members check out the Colorist Society International forum for some more information on HDR as well.
I also second the recommendation on Warren Eagles' Resolve lessons. The HDR lessons on FXPHD are USD$50-off until January 31, 2021.
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Virtual Production discussion
This Wednesday the 13th we will be discussing virtual production with some people who have practical experience of it. The cast isn’t fixed yet 😊 holidays are still getting in the way! This is one we should all be interested in as although it’s expensive and time consuming right now this will change...
9am in LA, New York at noon, 5pm in London, Amsterdam 6pm, Mumbai at 22:30pm, midnight in Bangkok, 4am Thursday in Sydney and 6am in Auckland.
cheers Become a CML Patron https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=43292735
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Kevin Shaw HDR lessons
I’ve been watching the first few lessons in this series, thank you Kevin, and they’re great. Anyone who want to know more about HDR should take the course https://www.fxphd.com/product/introduction-to-hdr/
It’s clear and straightforward without being condescending, just the facts man.
I have the Warren Eagles FXHPD class on Resolve, an old version, and I still refer to it when I get confused about parallel node 😊 which is something that seems to happen often.
This Kevin Shaw HDR series rams home the simple truth that the Shaw clan can teach you more about HDR and images than anyone, Kevin Shaw, Nick Shaw, Steve Shaw, Charles Poynton-Shaw, Josh Pines-Shaw, Bill Feightner-Shaw, JZ-Shaw and Sam Shepherd-Shaw.
Thanks to all of them and particularly thanks to Kevin for this course. If you don’t know what to do during lockdown then this is a great way to spend your time!
https://www.fxphd.com/product/introduction-to-hdr/
cheers Become a CML Patron https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=43292735
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Re: Tested Sony FX9 ProRes RAW and Noise Reduction still works
For sure Mitch. I assumed that the image is always sweetened a bit but this is the first time I remember having control over the "raw" output.
Pawel it is doing a very good job with low noise suppression at taking the edge off and subtly cleaning the shadows. It isn't as pleasant as Neat and looks more like Resolve's temporal reduction where the grain is reduced but still has a little motion to it. This is the same Noise Suppression from the internal XAVC recordings so I am used to how it behaves. With the raw recording you are able to get way deeper into the shadow information than XAVC so the noise suppression artifacts can be more apparent. -- Elvis Ripley Director/DP/Post Tulsa, OK, USA elvisripley.com
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Re: Tested Sony FX9 ProRes RAW and Noise Reduction still works
Noel Sterrett
On 1/2/21 11:45 PM, Mitch Gross wrote:
... trust me it’s much, much better that way.Due to limitations of size/weight/heat, processing capabilities inside a camera are far less than outside. If by "better" you mean faster, perhaps, if you mean image quality, I have to disagree.
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Re: Tested Sony FX9 ProRes RAW and Noise Reduction still works
Mitch Gross
On Jan 1, 2021, at 9:58 PM, Elvis Ripley <4@...> wrote: Just a general FYI to you and anyone else reading this, pretty much every camera out there that outputs RAW processes the information in some way. All the marketing that signals are “straight off the sensor” is pretty much bull, and trust me it’s much, much better that way. Mitch Gross New York
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Re: Tested Sony FX9 ProRes RAW and Noise Reduction still works
Not directly related to Sony FX9, but I have experimented with noise reduction on my 9x7 camera and, similarly to your experience with Sony FX9, the noise reduction applied at the RAW level appears to be more effective and preserves significantly more shadow detail than noise reduction applied downstream on RGB demosaiced images. In my opinion this is the best place to apply noise reduction.
I’m using proprietary algorithm, but the principle should be the same. These steps can be applied in camera or in post process (RAW to RAW). The former gives you more convenience, the latter gives you more control and usually superior results because, apart from spatial, you can apply temporal noise reduction as well.
One thing to check is whether this noise suppression preserves detail in the shadows and how it compares with noise suppression applied downstream, like Neat Video. Also, how does it behave with motion? I’m getting results superior to Neat Video (applied downstream).
On a side note, this doesn’t have anything to do with 6K -> 4K binning/averaging (which incidentally also helps noise suppression). These are additional RAW processing steps that can be applied at native Bayer pattern resolution too.
Kind Regards,
Pawel Achtel ACS B.Eng.(Hons) M.Sc. “Sharp to the Edge”
ACHTEL PTY LIMITED, ABN 52 134 895 417 Website: www.achtel.com Mobile: 040 747 2747 (overseas: +61 4 0747 2747) Mail: PO BOX 557, Rockdale, NSW 2216, Australia Address: RA 913 Coles Bay Rd., Coles Bay, TAS 7215, Australia Location: S 42° 0'14.40"S, E 148°14'47.13" Email: Pawel.Achtel@... Facebook: facebook.com/PawelAchtel Twitter: twitter.com/PawelAchtel Skype: Pawel.Achtel _._,_._,_
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Tested Sony FX9 ProRes RAW and Noise Reduction still works
Over this holiday down time I rented an XDCA-FX9 raw back to do some Sony FX9 tests. I was surprised to find that the noise suppression as well as the distortion correction and shading compensation still worked on the raw out feed.
Maybe this is due to the 6K to 4K downsample happening early in the chain and the noise reduction is all part of the downsample to a 4K bayer image. So unlike most cameras it isn't really a 'raw' file but a processed 16 bit bayer pattern image. This is a great and welcome surprise. The 12 bit log raw files recorded by the Shogun 7 are a huge bump in quality over the internal XAVC and with a little noise reduction they are even better. This also changes my feelings on when I would use a Venice. I have been doing internal XAVC for normal jobs, SDI to Shogun 7 recording ProResHQ for jobs with a lot of post and Venice for the highest end. Now I think I would rather have 4000 ISO and variable ND with the FX9 if I can apply a bit of denoise in camera. I wanted to do a write up about my experience because I haven't heard of anyone mentioning this anywhere but not many people are doing RAW from an FX9 because of the expensive back needed. Let me know if I am totally wrong or if you want to see anything else. My workflow... To do these tests I underexposed plenty to make sure the noise was easily visible as part of the image. Used Final Cut Pro to convert the ProRes RAW files to ProRes4444 S-Log3/S-Gamut3 files so they could be brought into Resolve for testing and ACES. Here is an S-Log3/S-Gamut3 to sRGB version of the shot with no adjustment to show how low the exposure was.  Then in Resolve in an ACEScct timeline I massively boosted the offset and contrast for these images to make sure the differences made it through to CML. On the uncompressed files it is easier to see in motion than these stills.  This is a strip on the MacBook lid behind the ColorChecker.  Looking at this color spectrum noise chart the differences are easy to see. This is Off->Low->Med->High on a loop.  And here is the noise present in the original image that isn't present in the High noise suppression setting.  https://f.io/17bGvb_c Here is a link to a ProRes RAW clip where I just cycle through Low, Mid and High Noise Suppression settings as well as the same clip converted to ProRes 4444 with S-Log3 S-Gamut3 gamma and gamut if you want to check it out. -- Elvis Ripley Director/DP Tulsa, OK
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
Danny Gagatt
"Don’t forget, if you have a little extra pocket money floating around as the year draws to a close, CML’s sponsors have not been as forthcoming in this hard year as usual, and a little extra to the CML cause at this time of year would not be wasted." Outside of iOS, it allows you to nominate where the advertising revenue you generate over every month goes to (Apple did not like that idea, so it got the developers to omitted the feature on iOS). I privately suggested it to Geoff recently, but those who already use Brave, or choose to try it on the basis of how it's modelled, you can select how much can go to a website of your nomination. Cinematography.net can be one of them. It's just a suggestion. Typically over one month, I generate at least US$20. You have to sign up to Uphold to be able to transfer the funds however. They are linked within the browser. But, they've been very slow to get people signed up recently. Danny Gagatt London
On Tue, 29 Dec 2020, 19:55 Mark Weingartner, ASC via cml.news, <vfxmark=me.com@...> wrote: While this has been an amusing thread, I would respectfully submit that we have covered the topic and that the signal-to-noise ratio of this discussion is unlikely to improve.
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
Brian Heller
Lighten up, Pawel. We are not curing cancer. Brian Heller IA 600 DP
On Dec 29, 2020, at 1:06 AM, Pawel Achtel ACS <pawel.achtel@...> wrote:
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
Mark Weingartner, ASC
While this has been an amusing thread, I would respectfully submit that we have covered the topic and that the signal-to-noise ratio of this discussion is unlikely to improve.
Without rummaging around and digging out my Listmum hat, I recommend that in the spirit of Good Will and with hopes for a better New Year for us and the societies we live in (and pay annual dues to) we give this topic a rest. Integrity is always worth talking about - not limited to Raw-log-hdr areas of technical discussion. Let’s give it a rest, please. I’m asking this time :-) Don’t forget, if you have a little extra pocket money floating around as the year draws to a close, CML’s sponsors have not been as forthcoming in this hard year as usual, and a little extra to the CML cause at this time of year would not be wasted. Best Wishes! Mark Weingartner, ASC Woodland Hills, CA DP, VFX
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
Colin Elves
Some of us prefer to communicate with pictures for example: Oh, look, a young person with creative integrity.  Colin Elves Director of Photography Brussels
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
Clark Graff
HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
MG you da bomb! (I’ve never actually said that before, feels odd, however it seems appropriate)
“It would be nice if you replied using actual words.”
Clark Graff VFX Supervisor, Production Designer, DIT, Propellerhead SoCal
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
Noel Sterrett
+2
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/29/20 10:11 AM, Brian Heller
wrote:
A thankless task, but one for which I, for one, am ever grateful.
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
Brian Heller
A thankless task, but one for which I, for one, am ever grateful.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Brian Heller IA 600 DP
On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
Already dealt with it, permanent approval...
Cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
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Re: Integrity - was Curves and Bit Depth
It's OK Pedro, I'm English and I didn't understand a word.
Cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
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