Web Analytics
   Date   

Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Cynthia Brett Webster
 

Would shooting through IRND Filters help to even out the blacks reaching the sensor?

Cynthia Webster DP
Los Angeles
818-524-9773

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 12:21 PM Art Adams <aadams@... wrote:

Hi Andrew-

 

You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.

 

-Art

 

_______________________________________________________
Art 
Adams
Cinema Lens Specialist
ARRI Inc.
3700 Vanowen Street
BurbankCA 91505
www.arri.com 

818-841-7070
x4212
 
aadams@...

Get all the latest information from www.arri.comFacebookTwitterInstagram and YouTube.






This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern.  I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc.  One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”  

 

My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?

 

 

 

Andrew Boulter

Director of Photography

UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable

+447768877686

+971585047839



On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

 

I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post.

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels

On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew

 

 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Art Adams
 

Andrew, I can’t answer that as I don’t know that camera well enough, or at all really. I do know that black shading will often solve that issue in other cameras. Sorry!

 

-Art

 

_______________________________________________________
Art 
Adams
Cinema Lens Specialist
ARRI Inc.
3700 Vanowen Street
BurbankCA 91505
www.arri.com 

818-841-7070
x4212
 
aadams@...

Get all the latest information from www.arri.comFacebookTwitterInstagram and YouTube.






This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:32 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Thankyou Art, 

 

So my next question is would black shading solve the problem I am seeing, and is that something a firmware update can cure, or not…….?  

 

Andrew

 

Andrew Boulter

Director of Photography

UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable

+447768877686

+971585047839



On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:20, Art Adams <aadams@...> wrote:

 

Hi Andrew-

 

You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.

 

-Art

 

 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.

_______________________________________________________

Art

 

Adams

Cinema Lens Specialist

ARRI Inc.

3700 Vanowen Street

Burbank

CA

 

91505

www.arri.com 

<image458551.png>

818-841-7070

x4212

 

<image888287.png>

aadams@...

Get all the latest information from www.arri.comFacebookTwitterInstagram and YouTube.





This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern.  I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc.  One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”  

 

My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?

 

<image001.jpg>

 

 

Andrew Boulter

Director of Photography

UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable

+447768877686

+971585047839




On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

 

I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post. 

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels

On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew

 

 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.

 


Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Andrew Boulter
 

Thankyou Art, 

So my next question is would black shading solve the problem I am seeing, and is that something a firmware update can cure, or not…….?  

Andrew

Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839

On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:20, Art Adams <aadams@...> wrote:

Hi Andrew-
 
You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.
 
-Art
 
_______________________________________________________
Art 
Adams
Cinema Lens Specialist
ARRI Inc.
3700 Vanowen Street
BurbankCA 91505
www.arri.com 

<image458551.png>
818-841-7070
x4212
 
<image888287.png>
aadams@...

Get all the latest information from www.arri.comFacebookTwitterInstagram and YouTube.






This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern.  I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc.  One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”  
 
My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?
 
<image001.jpg>
 
 
Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839


On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
 

I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post. 

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels

On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew
 
 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.



Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Art Adams
 

Hi Andrew-

 

You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.

 

-Art

 

_______________________________________________________
Art 
Adams
Cinema Lens Specialist
ARRI Inc.
3700 Vanowen Street
BurbankCA 91505
www.arri.com 

818-841-7070
x4212
 
aadams@...

Get all the latest information from www.arri.comFacebookTwitterInstagram and YouTube.






This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern.  I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc.  One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”  

 

My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?

 

 

 

Andrew Boulter

Director of Photography

UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable

+447768877686

+971585047839



On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

 

I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post.

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels

On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew

 

 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Colin Elves
 

I’d expect nothing less from CML.

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Brussels

On 1 Apr 2021, at 21:01, Art Adams <aadams@...> wrote:



Just to be pedantically pedantic, 



Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Andrew Boulter
 

Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern.  I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc.  One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”  

My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?



Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839

On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post.

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels

On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew


Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Art Adams
 

Just to be pedantically pedantic, it’s black shading that addresses fixed pattern noise. My understand is that you’re creating an offset map that addresses unevenness in noise across the sensor, often due to heat differences or other oddities.

 

Black balance is only about ensuring that the color of black is actually black, and not purplish black, blueish black, greenish black, etc.

 

-Art

 

_______________________________________________________
Art 
Adams
Cinema Lens Specialist
ARRI Inc.
3700 Vanowen Street
BurbankCA 91505
www.arri.com 

818-841-7070
x4212
 
aadams@...

Get all the latest information from www.arri.comFacebookTwitterInstagram and YouTube.






This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Colin Elves via cml.news <colin=colinelves.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 11:29 AM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post.

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels

On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew

 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Colin Elves
 

I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post.

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels

On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew


Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Mitch Gross
 

I believe Freefly just released a firmware update that expanded dynamic range along with other improvements. There’s also a new player for use on Macs. 



Mitch Gross
New York

On Apr 1, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew 

Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839


On 1 Apr 2021, at 17:18, alister@... wrote:

To me this looks like a problem with lights where the cmos sensor is operating faster than the lights are cycling. Try again with daylight or other lights with high speed ballast suitable for high frame rates or perhaps tungsten lights.


Alister Chapman 

Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant
UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226


Facebook: Alister Chapman
Twitter: @stormguy



www.xdcam-user.com    1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month!  Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.


















On 1 Apr 2021, at 16:27, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:


I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.

Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting.  Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory.  The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function.  but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.

I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively.  The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable.  My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.  

I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4.  I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue.  Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.

I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.

Hope someone can help


<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 16.18.34.png>
<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 15.58.45.png>




Thanks,

Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839








Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Andrew Boulter
 

Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.

Andrew 

Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839


On 1 Apr 2021, at 17:18, alister@... wrote:

To me this looks like a problem with lights where the cmos sensor is operating faster than the lights are cycling. Try again with daylight or other lights with high speed ballast suitable for high frame rates or perhaps tungsten lights.


Alister Chapman 

Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant
UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226


Facebook: Alister Chapman
Twitter: @stormguy



www.xdcam-user.com    1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month!  Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.


















On 1 Apr 2021, at 16:27, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:


I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.

Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting.  Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory.  The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function.  but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.

I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively.  The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable.  My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.  

I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4.  I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue.  Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.

I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.

Hope someone can help


<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 16.18.34.png>
<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 15.58.45.png>




Thanks,

Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839








Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Barry Bassett
 

I bought one of these for our rental division and the engineering guys felt that the quality of this camera had some real issues which made its purchase unwise.

 

Barry Bassett

Rental company, VMI, London


Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

alister@...
 

Sorry all. After writing my reply re lights I realised that what I was looking at was two images one above the other, not a single image. Doh.

So ignore my comments about lights. I’m not sure the frame are large enough to see the issue clearly. But often with high speed cameras there is no correction for black levels or incorrect pixels. Often you need to subtract a dark frame (lens capped) from your footage to clean it up an normalise the blacks.


Alister Chapman 

Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant
UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226


Facebook: Alister Chapman
Twitter: @stormguy


After writing my reply I realise the way the 
www.xdcam-user.com    1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month!  Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.


















On 1 Apr 2021, at 17:18, Alister Chapman <alister@...> wrote:

To me this looks like a problem with lights where the cmos sensor is operating faster than the lights are cycling. Try again with daylight or other lights with high speed ballast suitable for high frame rates or perhaps tungsten lights.


Alister Chapman 

Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant
UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226


Facebook: Alister Chapman
Twitter: @stormguy



www.xdcam-user.com    1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month!  Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.


















On 1 Apr 2021, at 16:27, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:


I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.

Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting.  Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory.  The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function.  but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.

I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively.  The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable.  My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.  

I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4.  I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue.  Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.

I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.

Hope someone can help


<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 16.18.34.png>
<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 15.58.45.png>




Thanks,

Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839








Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

alister@...
 

To me this looks like a problem with lights where the cmos sensor is operating faster than the lights are cycling. Try again with daylight or other lights with high speed ballast suitable for high frame rates or perhaps tungsten lights.


Alister Chapman 

Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant
UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226


Facebook: Alister Chapman
Twitter: @stormguy



www.xdcam-user.com    1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month!  Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.


















On 1 Apr 2021, at 16:27, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:


I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.

Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting.  Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory.  The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function.  but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.

I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively.  The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable.  My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.  

I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4.  I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue.  Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.

I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.

Hope someone can help


<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 16.18.34.png>
<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 15.58.45.png>




Thanks,

Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839







Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera

Andrew Boulter
 


I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.

Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting.  Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory.  The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function.  but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.

I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively.  The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable.  My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.  

I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4.  I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue.  Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.

I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.

Hope someone can help






Thanks,

Andrew Boulter
Director of Photography
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
+447768877686
+971585047839






Re: Color Charts for Mars

Noel Sterrett
 

Really great stuff. Not sure why it's so fascinating. Perhaps pandemic relief.

Cheers.

Noel Sterrett | Admit One Pictures | Atlanta

On 3/2/21 1:36 AM, Martyn James Bull via cml.news wrote:
Summary review of all cameras on Perserverance. 

Raw data sent sent back to Earth for archiving at JPL. 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-020-00765-9#citeas

The Mars 2020 Engineering Cameras and Microphone on the Perseverance Rover: A Next-Generation Imaging System for Mars Exploration

    • J. N. Maki
    • D. Gruel
    • […]
    • S. Algermissen 


Re: Color Charts for Mars

Gary Adcock
 

Art, 
I would venture to say that Perseverance is sending something akin to raw binary data back, that would allow greater areas of exploration of UV, IR and other parts of the visible and non-visible spectrum we should be extrapolating data from.  It would be true waste of resources if we went all the way to Mars and only looked for what we already know of, searching in and beyond the extended spectrum of “waves" that vibrate throughout what we know of in our universe in the form of sound, light, motion, and radio could become evolutionary. 



On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 12:04 PM, Art Adams wrote:
I would think it would send raw back. Processing the image before transmission seems like a waste of processing power and energy



Gary Adcock
techy as long as my zoom connection holds out
Chicago, IL   USA


Re: Color Charts for Mars

Noel Sterrett
 

Interesting zoom lens mechanism, but how can you get great looking bokeh on closeups of Martians at F/7?

Noel Sterrett | Admit One Pictures | Atlanta

On 3/2/21 1:38 PM, BarrySchwartz wrote:
Here's a little more on the cameras, from a photo newsletter, PetaPixel: "A Closer Look at the Mars Perseverance Rover’s Incredible Cameras"

https://petapixel.com/2021/03/01/a-closer-look-at-the-mars-perseverance-rovers-incredible-cameras/

Barry Schwartz
Barry Schwartz Photography
Napa, CA
+1 310 721 9882
barry@...

Photo  barryschwartzphoto.com
Blog  
barryschwartznotbarryschwartz.com


Re: Color Charts for Mars

BarrySchwartz
 

Here's a little more on the cameras, from a photo newsletter, PetaPixel: "A Closer Look at the Mars Perseverance Rover’s Incredible Cameras"

https://petapixel.com/2021/03/01/a-closer-look-at-the-mars-perseverance-rovers-incredible-cameras/

Barry Schwartz
Barry Schwartz Photography
Napa, CA
+1 310 721 9882
barry@...

Photo  barryschwartzphoto.com
Blog  
barryschwartznotbarryschwartz.com


Re: Color Charts for Mars

Martyn James Bull
 

Summary review of all cameras on Perserverance. 

Raw data sent sent back to Earth for archiving at JPL. 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-020-00765-9#citeas

The Mars 2020 Engineering Cameras and Microphone on the Perseverance Rover: A Next-Generation Imaging System for Mars Exploration

    • J. N. Maki
    • D. Gruel
    • […]
    • S. Algermissen 


Color Charts for Mars

Art Adams
 

>>>A grey card helps identify the white point of the scene. How the camera reacts to that is camera dependent.

That’s a better way of saying that. And, as best I can tell, that’s just a gain adjustment.

_______________________________________________________
Art 
Adams
Cinema Lens Specialist
ARRI Inc.
3700 Vanowen Street
BurbankCA 91505
www.arri.com 

818-841-7070
x4212
 
aadams@...

Get all the latest information from www.arri.comFacebookTwitterInstagram and YouTube.






This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.


81 - 100 of 1918