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Re: HDR monitoring on set
Doesn’t have to be inexpensive, I’m just not seeing many options at all :) BTW, thanks for a great article! I’m looking into the Canon-stuff, but I’m also looking to see if there’s anything I could have onboard or close to camera as well. I know viewing conditions will be an issue, but I’m betting many situations would allow me to control that somewhat anyway. -- John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen FNF Cinematographer Oslo, Norway
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Re: HDR monitoring on set
Art Adams <art.cml.only@...>
I'm not sure there's an inexpensive option right now. I've seen the SmallHDs and so far I'm not a fan.
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HDR monitoring on set
Unsure if this belongs here or in general or somewhere else, it’s a question about HDR, but about hardware. I’m having a hard time finding any good information about available onset HDR monitors, large and small. I see SmallHD has a range of monitors with good NIT output and what they call HDR preview, but I’ve not had any good experiences with SmallHD monitors before, especially not the colours. Maybe they just need calibration? I’ve read Art Adams’ guide to HDR, where he talks about the Canon ones, so I’ll have a look at those. Anyone tried any other monitors and willing to share? -- John-Erling Holmenes Fredriksen Cinematographer Oslo, Norway
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Z450 S-LOG3 access in V3 firmware?
ian@...
Anyone have any luck recording or outputting via HD-SDI a S-LOG3 signal from the Z450 camera?
I can turn a setting "on" but I have no luck outputting or recording it and I've been unable to even enable the 4K dual-SDI output. Yes- it's V3 firmware. It's enough to make a man run sobbing into the arms of an Amira... Or a nice Sony rep if they hang out here. Thank you in advance, Ian Kerr csc Cinematographer Vancouver, BC
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Re: Camera evaluations C200, EVA & Ursa MP
Fahnon
Thanks for doing this, Geoff. I own the C200 and am very curious about what you have to say in stage 3!
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
I haven't done a direct comparison, because I've been too busy shooting. :) That said, I have submitted some stills shot in stills mode as well as pulled from motion pictures to stock sites and art galleries, and they're getting as good a reception as what I've been capturing with my A7R... but the Red images have more dynamic range and less noise. Not that either is a low light camera by any means. I've gotten good results at ISO 3200 with it, but I generally keep it rated at ISO 800. My workflow has usually been to export a frame from RCX-Pro after normalizing it, and then do everything else in my image editing software, and that includes noise reduction, though honestly I haven't needed it that often. It's not a low light camera by any means. -----------------------------
On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Adam Wilt
Though the images of the gh5, likely the same 150mbit codec, carries more sharpness also very artifact-free. While it may be the same codec as the one used in the EVA1, it’s likely the upstream processing is different; the GH5 comes from the Lumix division and what they do seems to be very distinct from what the video / cine divisions do. The in-camera softening in the EVA1 and VaricamLT appear to be quite similar. It may be the case that the video / cine people are more conservative about compression artifacts than the Lumix people are. With any luck I can do some side-by-side recording of difficult subjects on both cameras later this week, and see if I find any more artifacts on the GH5 footage—artifacts that might not bother typical GH5 shooters but might be more of a problem for quality-conscious EVA1/LT shooters looking to feed VFX and/or critical grading workflows. Adam Wilt technical services: consulting / coding / camerawork Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Another great comparison test. Interesting to see what different sensors, dynamic range & compression does to the color of her hair. Mostly on the light side of her face. I didn’t expect such differences. Not the first time I’ve seen darker / auburn hair turn slightly too warm / red. I kept suspecting LED lighting, which may have contributed the time I ran across it - but this definitely shows major differences in these less expensive cameras. Her shirt also comes out quite differently on certain cameras, like the C200. h.264 150mb/s really wants to fall apart in the shadows - about the only thing I did expect. Thanks for sharing this. mdp Mark Doering-Powell, ASC Los Angeles based DP
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Felix Trolldenier / Trollfilm
Though the images of the gh5, likely the same 150mbit codec, carries
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more sharpness also very artifact-free. See our latest test: https://agdok.de/de_DE/kameratest20172 We also didn't see more detail in Helium. (debayered in Scratch in full premium, scaled with lanczos to 4k and 2k in the videos, no NR or sharpness, detail:high) Felix Trolldenier AG DOK colorist, online editor Berlin
On 25.12.2017 09:24, Geoff Boyle wrote: This isn’t surprising as the EVA records H264 at 150mbps this is a lot
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Felix Trolldenier / Trollfilm
Though the images of the gh5, likely the same 150mbit codec, carries more sharpeness also very artifact-free. See our latest test:
https://agdok.de/de_DE/kameratest20172 Felix Trolldenier AG DOK colorist, online editor Berlin Sent from my BlackBerry® From: "Adam Wilt" <adam@...>
Sender: cml-raw-log-hdr@groups.io
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2017 13:51:26 -0800 To: <cml-raw-log-hdr@groups.io> ReplyTo: cml-raw-log-hdr@groups.io
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2 Speaking of which. The EVA is soft on the latest tests as well I think. Adam Wilt technical services: consulting / coding / camerawork Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)
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Re: Camera evaluations C200, EVA & Ursa MP
Colin Elves
It’s just my fat face with an old Gretamacbeth chartI’m a very unusual elf. Colin Elves Short, fat, bald Elf/DP Berlin, testing after a busy night...
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Colin Elves
Ah, that’s interesting. I’ve only ever recorded 4K to the Odyssey. But I’ll take a look at some of the Dual recorded clips to see if there is indeed a difference!
Colin Elves Director of Photography/short fat elf. Berlin until NYE
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Geoff Boyle
This isn’t surprising as the EVA records H264 at 150mbps this is a lot lower data rate than the other cameras.
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I guess it starts the whole argument of initial resolution V compression again. Also as Adam points out there may be pre-filtering happening to help the compression.
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Geoff Boyle
It’s as sharp as I could get it!
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Adam Wilt
Speaking of which. The EVA is soft on the latest tests as well I think. Adam Wilt technical services: consulting / coding / camerawork Vancouver WA USA (no, not that Vancouver, the other one)
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Re: Camera evaluations C200, EVA & Ursa MP
Robert A. Ober
On 12/23/17 03:40, Colin Elves wrote:
<Stuff Removed> It’s just my fat face with an old Gretamacbeth chart <More Stuff Removed> I thought Elves were tall and skinny. :-) Robert A. Ober IT Consultant, Vidcaster, & Freelancer www.infohou.com Houston, TX -- Folks, Please be aware that I am not always watching email so text me or go old school and call me at 281-772-3596 if you need help within a few hours.
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Colin Elves
Also, focus on the Alexa SXT appears soft.Speaking of which. The EVA is soft on the latest tests as well I think. And I’d still like to know if Red do noise reduction in their processing pipeline though... Merry Christmas everyone! Colin Elves DP/Christmas Elf #4, central Europe region.
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Paul Curtis
On 24 Dec 2017, at 19:58, Art Adams <art.cml.only@...> wrote:Depends where it was scaled. I notice in photoshop for example it doesn't offer any decent scaling in 32 bit mode. If you take the EXR and convert it to 8 bit and scale that then you get a similar resolution to the F65, maybe more. In reality 8K acquisition is destined for 4K delivery, so a 50% scale with a decent algorithm will yield sublime results and is a fair real world test. Merry Christmas everyone! cheers Paul Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Art Adams <art.cml.only@...>
Yeah, there's something not right with that Helium JPEG. Knowing that the test was shot at 7K is an important clue. Following the 80% rule, that would drop effective resolution to 5.6K. Also, if these were pulled from UHD, as Geoff says: "These are sections of the full UHD image from each camera grabbed at 1:1 so you can clearly compare colour and resolution..." Then: If the Helium was recorded at 7K—higher resolution than UHD, which is what the other cameras can record at natively—then it had to be scaled somehow. Following the 80% rule, the Helium resolution should have landed around 5.6K, which is beyond the range of a 4K chart to show (unless you frame it to fill 1/4 of the frame). If the scaling from 7K to UHD went wrong, and resulted in a resolution loss of 50%, then we should expect to see the chart show problems in the range between 2.6K and 3K. That's exactly what we see in the chart. It's pretty clear there was some sort of scaling issue in bringing that frame from 7K down to UHD. The camera should have shown higher resolution than any of the others, and instead it shows exactly half of what we should expect, based on the captured resolution. That's why it's important to detail every step of these tests. (It's also why I don't do many of them anymore. It's too freakin' complicated, and a small mistake has large consequences for a product or a manufacturer.) Apparently the raw frame shows the proper resolution. Also, focus on the Alexa SXT appears soft.
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Re: Noise reduction in Red’s IPP2
Colin Elves
Well, here's me with egg on my face! I’ve just had a look at the camera original EXRs and the Helium does indeed have more resolution. So that’s that one sorted. Now we just need to get to the bottom of this NR thing!
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Colin Elves Director of Photography
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