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Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Fahnon
 

I'm unauthorized to view the video.


On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 9:25 AM Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

Okay, so... Fairly evidently I messed up when rushing this out the door. I've now taken a bit more time, keyed out the green (more or less)... fixed a couple more issues with white balance and replaced the shot that was overly soft.

 

The Cameras are all in the same order. So if people want to vote on the new version, lovely, very much appreciated. If they still stand by their previous decision then also great. 

 

Sorry about the slapdash version before. 

 

As before, 8 cameras under £10K (plus the Amira for control): Amira, FS7, C200, EVA1, GH5s, Ursa Mini Pro, Red Raven, Kinefinity Terra 4K.

https://vimeo.com/335478017

 

Thanks

 

Colin Elves

DP, Berlin

1. Camera A
2. Camera B
3. Camera C
4. Camera D
5. Camera E
6. Camera F
7. Camera G
8. Camera H

Vote Now



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Re: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

 

You need to Change the privacy settings!

Michael

Michael J Sanders

London based Cinematographer/DP 
Mobile: +44 (0) 7976 269818   


On 14 May 2019, at 14:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

Okay, so... Fairly evidently I messed up when rushing this out the door. I've now taken a bit more time, keyed out the green (more or less)... fixed a couple more issues with white balance and replaced the shot that was overly soft.

 

The Cameras are all in the same order. So if people want to vote on the new version, lovely, very much appreciated. If they still stand by their previous decision then also great. 

 

Sorry about the slapdash version before. 

 

As before, 8 cameras under £10K (plus the Amira for control): Amira, FS7, C200, EVA1, GH5s, Ursa Mini Pro, Red Raven, Kinefinity Terra 4K.

https://vimeo.com/335478017

 

Thanks

 

Colin Elves

DP, Berlin

1. Camera A
2. Camera B
3. Camera C
4. Camera D
5. Camera E
6. Camera F
7. Camera G
8. Camera H

Vote Now


Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2... #poll

Colin Elves
 

Okay, so... Fairly evidently I messed up when rushing this out the door. I've now taken a bit more time, keyed out the green (more or less)... fixed a couple more issues with white balance and replaced the shot that was overly soft.

 

The Cameras are all in the same order. So if people want to vote on the new version, lovely, very much appreciated. If they still stand by their previous decision then also great. 

 

Sorry about the slapdash version before. 

 

As before, 8 cameras under £10K (plus the Amira for control): Amira, FS7, C200, EVA1, GH5s, Ursa Mini Pro, Red Raven, Kinefinity Terra 4K.

https://vimeo.com/335478017

 

Thanks

 

Colin Elves

DP, Berlin

Results

See Who Responded


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Fahnon
 

Took a look from the original file downloaded from Vimeo, on an iMac Pro 5k screen.  I prefer A (which I suspect is Amira), C and G.  What's really interesting to me, is how differently these cameras replicate green, and how noisy B and F are in the green channel.  As others have noted, it really is hard to judge skin tones against the green background.

I own one of the cameras in the test, so I really hope I liked the one I spent money on!

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 3:47 PM Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

In February 2018 I organised a mini shootout of budget cameras (under €10k) in Berlin. I never released them as I messed up one of the cameras, didn’t have time to finalise etc etc. Anyway, I ended up getting into a discussion online about the colour science of one of them (some people felt the skin tones were too yellow) so I put together a quick comparison between the skin tones on all of them. 

 
I wasn’t intending to post it here, as I’m not sure it’s entirely worthy given the conditions and this being CML you have (rightly so) high standards, but the initial results on Facebook were interesting so I wanted to get the opinion of you honourable ladies and gentlemen. 
 
It’s 8 cameras: 
 
The Arri Amira,
Red Raven
Ursa Mini Pro (G1)
Sony FS7
Panasonic EVA1
Panasonic GH5s
Kinefinity Terra 4K
Canon C200
 
Details of the post processing and camera setup are on the vimeo link (same lens for all, same lighting and framing, Raw cameras were shooting Raw, Log cameras log, all processed in Resolve using ACES and appropriate IDT, Rec709 ODT) M18 through F1 as key, poly bounce as fill.
 
 
I’d love to get people’s opinions on what they consider to be the nicest skin tones! 
 
Thank you!
 
 
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin

1. A
2. B
3. C
4. D
5. E
6. F
7. G
8. H

Vote Now



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Fahnon
 

I'm assuming the Amira is the control.  

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:00 AM <dhfilm@...> wrote:
I am curious as to how the AMIRA made it into this comparison of under 10K Euro comparison?  Has the AMIRA price dropped in Berlin that much?

Dave Huntley
DP Philadelphia



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Everett Gorel
 

At this point, E and D capture the nicest flesh tones to me, in that order.
A, C, H, G all seem to skew either blue or magenta (in general, in the shadows, or both)
F and B flesh tones both appear to skew towards yellow.

Also, E and H win for dynamic range, as the flesh tones on the others (assuming proper exposure) cannot hold the highlights.
So all in all, I would vote for E... even though I seem to be a minority of one here:-) Not the first time!

Everett Gorel
Director/ DP
Houston, Texas


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Bob Kertesz
 

I’m going to see where we are on Monday and, if I have time, redo it
by desaturating the green
I think for a decent comparison, it should be desaturated until it's a
neutral grey. :-).

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

Engineer, Video Controller, and Live Compositor Extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted
them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

 

I agree! The green was super distracting. A neutral gray BG would have been ideal.

Andrew Redd 
Cinematographer 
Dallas, TX
972-935-2206

On May 12, 2019, at 5:12 AM, Jonathon Sendall <jpsendall@...> wrote:

Unfortunately using green as a background over influences the eye in terms of it's perception of colour in the face. Makes the job of assessing a little more difficult.


Jonathon Sendall
Director/DP
London UK
mob. 07813261793
ShowreelInstagramEventbrite WorkshopJPS Cineworks Forum


On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:57 AM R Buckingham <buxcam@...> wrote:
The green screen certainly photographed differently !!

Roger Buckingham ACS
Sydney Australia

On 12 May 2019, at 5:47 am, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

In February 2018 I organised a mini shootout of budget cameras (under €10k) in Berlin. I never released them as I messed up one of the cameras, didn’t have time to finalise etc etc. Anyway, I ended up getting into a discussion online about the colour science of one of them (some people felt the skin tones were too yellow) so I put together a quick comparison between the skin tones on all of them. 

 
I wasn’t intending to post it here, as I’m not sure it’s entirely worthy given the conditions and this being CML you have (rightly so) high standards, but the initial results on Facebook were interesting so I wanted to get the opinion of you honourable ladies and gentlemen. 
 
It’s 8 cameras: 
 
The Arri Amira,
Red Raven
Ursa Mini Pro (G1)
Sony FS7
Panasonic EVA1
Panasonic GH5s
Kinefinity Terra 4K
Canon C200
 
Details of the post processing and camera setup are on the vimeo link (same lens for all, same lighting and framing, Raw cameras were shooting Raw, Log cameras log, all processed in Resolve using ACES and appropriate IDT, Rec709 ODT) M18 through F1 as key, poly bounce as fill.
 
 
I’d love to get people’s opinions on what they consider to be the nicest skin tones! 
 
Thank you!
 
 
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin

1. A
2. B
3. C
4. D
5. E
6. F
7. G
8. H

Vote Now



Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

dave huntley
 

I am curious as to how the AMIRA made it into this comparison of under 10K Euro comparison?  Has the AMIRA price dropped in Berlin that much?

Dave Huntley
DP Philadelphia


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Colin Elves
 

Actually, looking at the results now, you’d be surprised how unexpected they are - and how consistent across multiple platforms.

Colin Elves
DP, Berlin

On 12 May 2019, at 12:12, Jonathon Sendall <jpsendall@...> wrote:

Unfortunately using green as a background over influences the eye in terms of it's perception of colour in the face. Makes the job of assessing a little more difficult.


Jonathon Sendall
Director/DP
London UK 
mob. 07813261793
ShowreelInstagramEventbrite WorkshopJPS Cineworks Forum



Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Colin Elves
 

Okay I think I set it to loop now.

Colin Elves
DP, Berlin.

On 12 May 2019, at 10:48, Jordan Cushing via Cml.News <jordancushing=yahoo.ca@...> wrote:

Blink and you’ll miss it ;-)
Colin, could you set your Vimeo preferences to loop that clip? Would make it a lot easier to compare these.
Thanks for sharing!

Jordan Cushing
DoP
Milan 
_._,_._,_


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Colin Elves
 

I know, I’m sorry. It was done in a rush. I only put it together to work out something specifically then decided to share it more widely.

I’m going to see where we are on Monday and, if I have time, redo it by desaturating the green and releasing the camera names. I also need to fix the white balance on H which I noticed was a little off because I used the color picker. 

It’s not really a ’serious’ poll at this stage.

Colin Elves
DP, Berlin.

On 12 May 2019, at 12:12, Jonathon Sendall <jpsendall@...> wrote:

Unfortunately using green as a background over influences the eye in terms of it's perception of colour in the face. Makes the job of assessing a little more difficult.


Jonathon Sendall
Director/DP
London UK 
mob. 07813261793
ShowreelInstagramEventbrite WorkshopJPS Cineworks Forum


On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:57 AM R Buckingham <buxcam@...> wrote:
The green screen certainly photographed differently !!


Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Jonathon Sendall
 

Unfortunately using green as a background over influences the eye in terms of it's perception of colour in the face. Makes the job of assessing a little more difficult.


Jonathon Sendall
Director/DP
London UK
mob. 07813261793
ShowreelInstagramEventbrite WorkshopJPS Cineworks Forum


On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:57 AM R Buckingham <buxcam@...> wrote:
The green screen certainly photographed differently !!

Roger Buckingham ACS
Sydney Australia

On 12 May 2019, at 5:47 am, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

In February 2018 I organised a mini shootout of budget cameras (under €10k) in Berlin. I never released them as I messed up one of the cameras, didn’t have time to finalise etc etc. Anyway, I ended up getting into a discussion online about the colour science of one of them (some people felt the skin tones were too yellow) so I put together a quick comparison between the skin tones on all of them. 

 
I wasn’t intending to post it here, as I’m not sure it’s entirely worthy given the conditions and this being CML you have (rightly so) high standards, but the initial results on Facebook were interesting so I wanted to get the opinion of you honourable ladies and gentlemen. 
 
It’s 8 cameras: 
 
The Arri Amira,
Red Raven
Ursa Mini Pro (G1)
Sony FS7
Panasonic EVA1
Panasonic GH5s
Kinefinity Terra 4K
Canon C200
 
Details of the post processing and camera setup are on the vimeo link (same lens for all, same lighting and framing, Raw cameras were shooting Raw, Log cameras log, all processed in Resolve using ACES and appropriate IDT, Rec709 ODT) M18 through F1 as key, poly bounce as fill.
 
 
I’d love to get people’s opinions on what they consider to be the nicest skin tones! 
 
Thank you!
 
 
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin

1. A
2. B
3. C
4. D
5. E
6. F
7. G
8. H

Vote Now



Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

R Buckingham
 

The green screen certainly photographed differently !!

Roger Buckingham ACS
Sydney Australia

On 12 May 2019, at 5:47 am, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

In February 2018 I organised a mini shootout of budget cameras (under €10k) in Berlin. I never released them as I messed up one of the cameras, didn’t have time to finalise etc etc. Anyway, I ended up getting into a discussion online about the colour science of one of them (some people felt the skin tones were too yellow) so I put together a quick comparison between the skin tones on all of them. 

 
I wasn’t intending to post it here, as I’m not sure it’s entirely worthy given the conditions and this being CML you have (rightly so) high standards, but the initial results on Facebook were interesting so I wanted to get the opinion of you honourable ladies and gentlemen. 
 
It’s 8 cameras: 
 
The Arri Amira,
Red Raven
Ursa Mini Pro (G1)
Sony FS7
Panasonic EVA1
Panasonic GH5s
Kinefinity Terra 4K
Canon C200
 
Details of the post processing and camera setup are on the vimeo link (same lens for all, same lighting and framing, Raw cameras were shooting Raw, Log cameras log, all processed in Resolve using ACES and appropriate IDT, Rec709 ODT) M18 through F1 as key, poly bounce as fill.
 
 
I’d love to get people’s opinions on what they consider to be the nicest skin tones! 
 
Thank you!
 
 
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin

1. A
2. B
3. C
4. D
5. E
6. F
7. G
8. H

Vote Now



Re: Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Jordan Cushing
 

Blink and you’ll miss it ;-)
Colin, could you set your Vimeo preferences to loop that clip? Would make it a lot easier to compare these.
Thanks for sharing!

Jordan Cushing
DoP
Milan 


Budget camera skin tone shootout #poll

Colin Elves
 

In February 2018 I organised a mini shootout of budget cameras (under €10k) in Berlin. I never released them as I messed up one of the cameras, didn’t have time to finalise etc etc. Anyway, I ended up getting into a discussion online about the colour science of one of them (some people felt the skin tones were too yellow) so I put together a quick comparison between the skin tones on all of them. 
 
I wasn’t intending to post it here, as I’m not sure it’s entirely worthy given the conditions and this being CML you have (rightly so) high standards, but the initial results on Facebook were interesting so I wanted to get the opinion of you honourable ladies and gentlemen. 
 
It’s 8 cameras: 
 
The Arri Amira,
Red Raven
Ursa Mini Pro (G1)
Sony FS7
Panasonic EVA1
Panasonic GH5s
Kinefinity Terra 4K
Canon C200
 
Details of the post processing and camera setup are on the vimeo link (same lens for all, same lighting and framing, Raw cameras were shooting Raw, Log cameras log, all processed in Resolve using ACES and appropriate IDT, Rec709 ODT) M18 through F1 as key, poly bounce as fill.
 
https://vimeo.com/335478017
 
I’d love to get people’s opinions on what they consider to be the nicest skin tones! 
 
Thank you!
 
 
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin

Results


Re: Contact at Canon To Talk about Raw Light in C700 FF

Brett Danton
 

That’s my understanding as well Geoff, would be a great feature.

On 5 Apr 2019, at 16:57, Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:

As far as I know this is not possible because the C700 variants all use digic5 processing and you need digic6 processing for craw.

cheers 
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076



From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Ed David <ed.david@...>
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 4:26:59 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Contact at Canon To Talk about Raw Light in C700 FF
 
Hi all!
Seeing if anyone has a contact name for someone at Canon?
I wanted to see about implementing canon raw light in the canon c700 FF.

Thanks all!
Ed David
www.eddaviddp.com
ed.david@...


Re: Contact at Canon To Talk about Raw Light in C700 FF

Ed David
 

thanks Geoff.  sad face.


ed david | cinematographer, filmmaker
WWW.EDDAVIDDP.COM   /   917.449.0739


On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 10:57 AM Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:
As far as I know this is not possible because the C700 variants all use digic5 processing and you need digic6 processing for craw.

cheers 
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076



From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Ed David <ed.david@...>
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 4:26:59 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Contact at Canon To Talk about Raw Light in C700 FF
 
Hi all!
Seeing if anyone has a contact name for someone at Canon?
I wanted to see about implementing canon raw light in the canon c700 FF.

Thanks all!
Ed David
www.eddaviddp.com
ed.david@...


Re: Contact at Canon To Talk about Raw Light in C700 FF

Geoff Boyle
 

As far as I know this is not possible because the C700 variants all use digic5 processing and you need digic6 processing for craw.

cheers 
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076



From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Ed David <ed.david@...>
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 4:26:59 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Contact at Canon To Talk about Raw Light in C700 FF
 
Hi all!
Seeing if anyone has a contact name for someone at Canon?
I wanted to see about implementing canon raw light in the canon c700 FF.

Thanks all!
Ed David
www.eddaviddp.com
ed.david@...


Re: Contact at Canon To Talk about Raw Light in C700 FF

Daniel Gurzi
 

Ed, I'll send you a contact in the Slack channel for the NY Sales Rep Jesse Mineo. 


Daniel Gurzi | Director of Business Development
Brooklyn, NY

On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 10:40 AM Ed David <ed.david@...> wrote:
Hi all!
Seeing if anyone has a contact name for someone at Canon?
I wanted to see about implementing canon raw light in the canon c700 FF.

Thanks all!
Ed David
www.eddaviddp.com
ed.david@...

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