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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Barry Bassett
We noticed lines on our test recordings too and this is why we rejected the Wave camera.
Barry Bassett
London rental company, VMI
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Hi,
thank you everyone for your answers, the “fixed pattern noise” seems to be the best description of the issue, I am going to contact Wave Freefly direct and see if they can tell me anymore, or if they are hoping to solve it with firmware update.
I don’t really agree with you Rakesh as the exposure set is correct for the hi lights from the water and the stone in direct sunlight, when doing this test I made sure that there was a significant amount of shadow so it was easy to see what issues, if any, might be. Dynamic range historically has always been a thing with any of the high speed cameras, do you remember the Weissman 1 ! Its the first thing I look for, its not great on this camera, but not that bad, considering the $10K price point. I really want to like this, having a highspeed/slowmo camera on car shoots is super useful, especially if its cheap to rent.
For the moment the lines issue that I see in the shadows means this one, as it stands is unusable.
Thankyou to Andrew Hunter for the work around, seems they really need to make this happen incamera.
Andrew
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
To be honest, I'd guess that you might be dealing with nothing more complicated than under-exposure here. It's a common thing in slow motion footage from people who haven't tried it, because it's easy to underestimate the difference in shutter speeds. You're looking at 1/800th of a second (1/1600th if you're using a 180 degree shutter), which is a huge difference from the standard 1/48 of a second.
Plus, the areas in direct sunlight aren't showing the fixed pattern noise, which reinforces my theory that you're seeing underexposure.
Rakesh Malik DoP/Colourist, Vancouver, BC
-----------------------------
| | ![--]() | | Rakesh Malik ![]() about.me/WhiteCranePhoto |
|  |
Director of Photography, Colorist
On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:32 AM Art Adams < aadams@...> wrote:
Hi Cynthia- If there’s enough IR pollution then yes, the blacks would be contaminated along with everything else. At lower levels only fabrics and certain materials will noticeably change color. In this case, as Andrew Hunter points out, it’s probably fixed pattern noise, so an IRND wouldn’t help. Generally, though, a filter is going to affect all the light reaching the sensor, so anything that it does to the shadows will also be done to the highlights. -Art
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Would shooting through IRND Filters help to even out the blacks reaching the sensor?
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On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 12:21 PM Art Adams <aadams@... wrote:
Hi Andrew-
You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.
-Art
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Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was
that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”
My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here
you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Rakesh Malik
To be honest, I'd guess that you might be dealing with nothing more complicated than under-exposure here. It's a common thing in slow motion footage from people who haven't tried it, because it's easy to underestimate the difference in shutter speeds. You're looking at 1/800th of a second (1/1600th if you're using a 180 degree shutter), which is a huge difference from the standard 1/48 of a second.
Plus, the areas in direct sunlight aren't showing the fixed pattern noise, which reinforces my theory that you're seeing underexposure.
Rakesh Malik DoP/Colourist, Vancouver, BC
-----------------------------
| | ![--]() | | Rakesh Malik ![]() about.me/WhiteCranePhoto |
| |
Director of Photography, Colorist
On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:32 AM Art Adams < aadams@...> wrote:
Hi Cynthia-
If there’s enough IR pollution then yes, the blacks would be contaminated along with everything else. At lower levels only fabrics and certain materials will noticeably change color.
In this case, as Andrew Hunter points out, it’s probably fixed pattern noise, so an IRND wouldn’t help.
Generally, though, a filter is going to affect all the light reaching the sensor, so anything that it does to the shadows will also be done to the highlights.
-Art
| _______________________________________________________ | | ARRI Inc.
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From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Cynthia Brett Webster via cml.news <cyndustries.mail=gmail.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 11:54 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Would shooting through IRND Filters help to even out the blacks reaching the sensor?
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other
legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails
are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 12:21 PM Art Adams <aadams@... wrote:
Hi Andrew-
You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.
-Art
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From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was
that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”
My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here
you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
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Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Art Adams
Hi Cynthia-
If there’s enough IR pollution then yes, the blacks would be contaminated along with everything else. At lower levels only fabrics and certain materials will noticeably change color.
In this case, as Andrew Hunter points out, it’s probably fixed pattern noise, so an IRND wouldn’t help.
Generally, though, a filter is going to affect all the light reaching the sensor, so anything that it does to the shadows will also be done to the highlights.
-Art
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From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Cynthia Brett Webster via cml.news <cyndustries.mail=gmail.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 11:54 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Would shooting through IRND Filters help to even out the blacks reaching the sensor?
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other
legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails
are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 12:21 PM Art Adams < aadams@... wrote:
Hi Andrew-
You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.
-Art
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From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was
that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”
My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here
you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Hey Andrew,
The sample images you posted look like fixed pattern noise to me, BMD had similar issues with their 1st 4k camera when I recieved it. Black shading is of course easier for everyone (production and post) when applied in camera but can be done after the fact.
The steps I've used in the past are as follows:
- Record about 2-3 minutes with the port cap on.
- Make sure that you are doing all your math with a linear oetf in the compositing app of your choice or the math just won't work right.
- Average out the dark frames. (eg ADD all frames then DIVIDE by the number of frames)
- SUBTRACT the averaged dark frame from each frame of footage.
It's cumbersome and much better when done in camera, but it is a method of salvaging shots when either a black shade wasn't done or was done incorrectly.
My recollections from working with the Phantom HD Golds of yesteryear was the phantom tech would blackshade everytime we changed frame rate.
Sincerely, Andrew Hunter 1st AC/ Sometimes DP+workflow janitor Toronto, Canada
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 3:29 PM Andrew Boulter < andrew@...> wrote: Thankyou Art,
So my next question is would black shading solve the problem I am seeing, and is that something a firmware update can cure, or not…….?
Andrew
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839 On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:20, Art Adams < aadams@...> wrote:
Hi Andrew- You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns. -Art | _______________________________________________________ | | ARRI Inc.
| | 3700 Vanowen Street | |
| |
| | Get all the latest information from www.arri.com, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.
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This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up” My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why? UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves < colin@...> wrote: I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter < andrew@...> wrote: Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that. Andrew
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Would shooting through IRND Filters help to even out the blacks reaching the sensor?
Cynthia Webster DP Los Angeles 818-524-9773
On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 12:21 PM Art Adams < aadams@... wrote:
Hi Andrew-
You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.
-Art
| _______________________________________________________ | | ARRI Inc.
| | 3700 Vanowen Street | |
| |
| | Get all the latest information from www.arri.com, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.
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This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines,
forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to
‘warm up”
My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here
you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other
legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails
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Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Art Adams
Andrew, I can’t answer that as I don’t know that camera well enough, or at all really. I do know that black shading will often solve that issue in other cameras. Sorry!
-Art
| _______________________________________________________ | | ARRI Inc.
| | 3700 Vanowen Street | |
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From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:32 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Thankyou Art,
So my next question is would black shading solve the problem I am seeing, and is that something a firmware update can cure, or not…….?
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:20, Art Adams <aadams@...> wrote:
You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other
legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails
are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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Get all the latest information from www.arri.com, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.
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Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines,
forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to
‘warm up”
My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here
you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or
other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails
are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Thankyou Art,
So my next question is would black shading solve the problem I am seeing, and is that something a firmware update can cure, or not…….?
Andrew
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:20, Art Adams < aadams@...> wrote:
Hi Andrew- You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns. -Art | _______________________________________________________ | | ARRI Inc.
| | 3700 Vanowen Street | |
| |
| | Get all the latest information from www.arri.com, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.
| |
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up” My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why? UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves < colin@...> wrote: I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter < andrew@...> wrote: Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that. Andrew
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Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Art Adams
Hi Andrew-
You’re thinking about black shading, not black balance. Black balance will just make sure black is black. Black shading is about eliminating noise and fixed patterns.
-Art
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From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Andrew Boulter via cml.news <andrew=andrewboulter.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 12:06 PM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines,
forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to
‘warm up”
My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?
UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here
you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other
legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails
are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
I’d expect nothing less from CML.
On 1 Apr 2021, at 21:01, Art Adams <aadams@...> wrote:
Just to be pedantically pedantic,
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Yes, sorry about the examples, they are not great, here’s one more, I have increased the brightness and raised the shadow areas just to so you can see the pattern. I hasten to add this is only to see the lines, forget the colours etc. One of my thoughts was that its to do with a black balance, which isn’t possible, I then thought perhaps the temperature of the sensor might be an issue, I know when shooting Phantom some techs have told me they want the camera to ‘warm up”
My main question is , what is producing the pattern, obviously the sensor, but what part of it and why?
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
On 1 Apr 2021, at 19:25, Colin Elves < colin@...> wrote:
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post. Colin Elves Director of Photography Back in Brussels On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
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Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Art Adams
Just to be pedantically pedantic, it’s black shading that addresses fixed pattern noise. My understand is that you’re creating an offset map that addresses unevenness in noise across the sensor, often due to heat differences or other oddities.
Black balance is only about ensuring that the color of black is actually black, and not purplish black, blueish black, greenish black, etc.
-Art
| _______________________________________________________ | | ARRI Inc.
| | 3700 Vanowen Street | |
| |
| | Get all the latest information from www.arri.com, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube.
| |
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> on behalf of Colin Elves via cml.news <colin=colinelves.com@...>
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 11:29 AM
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...>
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here
you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other
legal rules. If you have received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails
are not screened for response deadlines. The integrity and security of this message cannot be guaranteed on the Internet.
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
I agree 100% with Alister: the frames are too small to judge (😃) but my initial assumption would be that it’s fixed pattern noise. Most cameras address this with a black balance. If that’s not an option here you’ll need to do it in post.
Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Back in Brussels
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 1 Apr 2021, at 20:10, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
I believe Freefly just released a firmware update that expanded dynamic range along with other improvements. There’s also a new player for use on Macs.
On Apr 1, 2021, at 1:42 PM, Andrew Boulter <andrew@...> wrote:
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
To me this looks like a problem with lights where the cmos sensor is operating faster than the lights are cycling. Try again with daylight or other lights with high speed ballast suitable for high frame rates or perhaps tungsten lights.
Alister Chapman
Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226
Facebook: Alister Chapman Twitter: @stormguy
1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month! Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.
On 1 Apr 2021, at 16:27, Andrew Boulter < andrew@...> wrote:
I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.
Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting. Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory. The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function. but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.
I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively. The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable. My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.
I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4. I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue. Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.
I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.
Hope someone can help
<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 16.18.34.png> <Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 15.58.45.png>
Thanks,
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Thanks Alister, seems I forgot to mention one important thing, it was lit with sunlight alone, so its not that.
Andrew
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
To me this looks like a problem with lights where the cmos sensor is operating faster than the lights are cycling. Try again with daylight or other lights with high speed ballast suitable for high frame rates or perhaps tungsten lights.
Alister Chapman
Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226
Facebook: Alister Chapman Twitter: @stormguy
1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month! Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.
On 1 Apr 2021, at 16:27, Andrew Boulter < andrew@...> wrote:
I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.
Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting. Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory. The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function. but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.
I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively. The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable. My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.
I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4. I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue. Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.
I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.
Hope someone can help
<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 16.18.34.png> <Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 15.58.45.png>
Thanks,
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Barry Bassett
I bought one of these for our rental division and the engineering guys felt that the quality of this camera had some real issues which made its purchase unwise.
Barry Bassett
Rental company, VMI, London
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
Sorry all. After writing my reply re lights I realised that what I was looking at was two images one above the other, not a single image. Doh.
So ignore my comments about lights. I’m not sure the frame are large enough to see the issue clearly. But often with high speed cameras there is no correction for black levels or incorrect pixels. Often you need to subtract a dark frame (lens capped) from your footage to clean it up an normalise the blacks.
Alister Chapman
Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226
Facebook: Alister Chapman Twitter: @stormguy
After writing my reply I realise the way the 1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month! Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.
On 1 Apr 2021, at 17:18, Alister Chapman < alister@...> wrote:
To me this looks like a problem with lights where the cmos sensor is operating faster than the lights are cycling. Try again with daylight or other lights with high speed ballast suitable for high frame rates or perhaps tungsten lights.
Alister Chapman
Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226
Facebook: Alister Chapman Twitter: @stormguy
1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month! Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.
On 1 Apr 2021, at 16:27, Andrew Boulter < andrew@...> wrote:
I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.
Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting. Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory. The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function. but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.
I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively. The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable. My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.
I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4. I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue. Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.
I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.
Hope someone can help
<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 16.18.34.png> <Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 15.58.45.png>
Thanks,
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
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|
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Re: Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
To me this looks like a problem with lights where the cmos sensor is operating faster than the lights are cycling. Try again with daylight or other lights with high speed ballast suitable for high frame rates or perhaps tungsten lights.
Alister Chapman
Cinematographer - DIT - Consultant UK Mobile/Whatsapp +44 7711 152226
Facebook: Alister Chapman Twitter: @stormguy
1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month! Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.
On 1 Apr 2021, at 16:27, Andrew Boulter < andrew@...> wrote:
I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.
Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting. Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory. The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function. but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.
I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively. The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable. My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.
I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4. I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue. Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.
I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.
Hope someone can help
<Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 16.18.34.png> <Screenshot 2021-04-01 at 15.58.45.png>
Thanks,
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
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Wave-Freefly Hi Speed Camera
I tested one of the Wave-Freefly cameras today here in Dubai and came across some issues, and was hoping that those with more knowledge than me, I come from the old world, so my sensor knowledge has wide gaps, could, either tell me what the issue is, and secondly perhaps point out what I did wrong.
Those familiar with these cameras know that the menu system is insanely simple, you basically have size, 4k or 2K, frame rate, upto 420fps in 4k and 1440fps in 2k, shutter angle and a kelvin setting. Its very small, not much bigger than the original BMPCC and has internal battery and 2TB internal memory. The workflow is a little clunky, but early days, only works on PC at the moment, the mac one we couldn’t get to function. but, its a $10K camera……lots to like.
I shot some very unscientific tests filming water both in 4k and 2K at 420 and 1440fps respectively. The 4K looks pretty clean, but I could see some vertical lines in the shadow areas, however when shooting 2K 1440fps the lines were so evident that frankly the footage would be unusable. My question is, I don’t know what these lines are……..I am hoping its something that I am doing wrong, but need to be enlightened.
I have attached a couple of small png's of a frame shot at 1440fps, once downloaded they were put through resolve and then exported as an mp4. I’d love to share the footage, just let me know, I can share via wetransfer or similar, but I am hoping these screen grabs show you the vertical line issue. Top left hand corner in the shadow area is where its very evident.
I shot using a 32mm Master Prime, so I don’t feel its a lens issue.
Hope someone can help
Thanks,
Andrew Boulter Director of Photography UK based but thanks to Covid, currently in Dubai for the foreseeable +447768877686 +971585047839
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Re: Color Charts for Mars
Really great stuff. Not
sure why it's so fascinating. Perhaps pandemic relief.
Cheers.
Noel Sterrett | Admit One Pictures |
Atlanta
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 3/2/21 1:36 AM, Martyn James Bull
via cml.news wrote:
Summary review of all cameras on Perserverance.
Raw data sent sent back to Earth for archiving at JPL.
Space
Science Reviews volume 216, Article number: 137 (2020)
best regards
martyn
Martyn J Bull
filmaker
oxfordshire, uk
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