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Sigma fp


Paul Curtis
 

On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:17, Bruce Allen <boacinema@...> wrote:
So my vote for the Sigma fp’s next version would be light raw compression onboard please. Even if it makes it a bit bigger.
This thread has derailed totally so it's nice to see a fp comment!

I would like the next fp to dump out the whole 6K sensor or offer other crops of it.

Whilst i understand the fierce my pixel is bigger than your pixel debate going on, the fp is just a tiny sensor in a box, and as i understand there is no headroom for compression onboard. There's no fan, it doesn't run too hot and it doesn't overheat. But it is not, never, a long form recorder - there are many better choices.

Uncompressed DNG is fine for a lot of cases and when you offload you can offload via SlimRAW straight to lossless compressed DNG and save quite a bit - so the offload process isn't so bad. You can very easily swap standard SSDs.

I spoke to them about adding a curve to the 10 bit version to store all 12 bits but it wasn't something the hardware could do, at that time.

For a low budget indie filmmaker (which i think is the intended audience) it offers fantastic quality. As a crash cam, or a C cam on a larger production it can work well too.

But the biggest thing - i'd like Sigma to open source the OS of the camera to 3rd parties. They are the only manufacturer that could do this as they're not protected a line. I am aware of an SDK in the pipeline but i have no idea what that does and doesn't allow.

Whoever opens up their camera OS and allows access to all hardware will be laughing in that indie/custom market

cheers
Paul

Paul Curtis, VFX & Post | Canterbury, UK


Noel Sterrett
 

On 12/28/20 5:53 AM, Paul Curtis wrote:
... the fp is just a tiny sensor in a box, and as i understand there is no headroom for
compression onboard.
Exactly.

It will always be the case that processing is faster/better/cheaper off camera than on. If you want
to record standard compression schemes in real time, just add an Atomos or BMD recorder. If you can
wait until offload, then compress, if you like, during transfer.

I have long felt that we will get to the point that, like the eye, the sensor and lens will become
one. The Sigma fp is a step in that direction.


Noel Sterrett
 

On 12/28/20 5:53 AM, Paul Curtis wrote:
I would like the next fp to dump out the whole 6K sensor or offer other crops of it.
I agree. The quality of the 6K to 4K downres is limited by the processor power, and represents a
form of compression. Better to just push 6K out to an SSD.

One could argue it is actually an APS-C camera.


Mitch Gross
 

I will add that I am certainly not anti-RAW. There are certainly times where it is the right tool for the job. But I think that most of the time I would prefer to connect the Sigma FP to a small 5” Atomos or BMD recorder to capture a compressed RAW that’s far more reasonable to deal with than an uncompressed RAW file. Even on a gimbal you need a monitor to see what you’re doing. 

Mitch Gross
New York

On Dec 28, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Noel Sterrett <noel@...> wrote:

On 12/28/20 5:53 AM, Paul Curtis wrote:
... the fp is just a tiny sensor in a box, and as i understand there is no headroom for
compression onboard.
Exactly.

It will always be the case that processing is faster/better/cheaper off camera than on. If you want
to record standard compression schemes in real time, just add an Atomos or BMD recorder. If you can
wait until offload, then compress, if you like, during transfer.

I have long felt that we will get to the point that, like the eye, the sensor and lens will become
one. The Sigma fp is a step in that direction.


Noel Sterrett
 

On 12/28/20 8:57 AM, Mitch Gross wrote:
But I think that most of the time I would prefer to connect the Sigma FP to a small 5” Atomos or
BMD recorder to capture a compressed RAW that’s far more reasonable to deal with than an
uncompressed RAW file. Even on a gimbal you need a monitor to see what you’re doing.
I agree. I just bought a BMD both for record and monitor. But I also got a few T5's for uncompressed
green things.

Nice that the camera can do both.


Noel Sterrett
 

On 12/28/20 5:53 AM, Paul Curtis wrote:
Uncompressed DNG is fine for a lot of cases and when you offload you can offload via SlimRAW
straight to lossless compressed DNG and save quite a bit
You can save a great deal. Uncompressed 12bit 4K DCI output of the Sigma fp is ~ 240Mb/sec. That's ~
1 TB/hour. If your use slimRAW, you can copy that uncompressed RAW to two drives simultaneously
(with error checking), compress from 0 to 7:1, and still be undeveloped RAW.

Compression at 7:1 is ~150Mb/s. That's a date rate we were doing 20 years ago. So it's not really
about data rate, the real question is whether or not to stay RAW (including various compression
levels), or bake it with some other compression scheme.

I see no reason to be in a hurry to bake.

The entire workflow, including proxies which slimRAW can create, could be RAW but just at different
compression levels. No doubt efx would want uncompressed, but editing could do with 3:1, mix with
5:1, and producers get the highest number, 7:1.

Many problems could be avoided by everyone staying in the same RAW sandbox.