Topics

HDR mastering monitorsing dering for a buy this year, or

Sebastian Plamadeala
 

hello,

i have been trying to keep up to date with hdr monitoring  for mastering/grading.

seeing how the bvm x300 is three years old already, im thinking in terms of new aquisitions if its wise for considering a buy this year, or should i wait for new apparitions. 

Seeinng how nab showd off tvlogic and flanders, these brands are not so the "go-to" standard for HDR mastering monitors.

any thoughts?

thank you,
sebastian

Steve Shaw
 

I would suggest the FSI XM310K.
(Or potentially the Eizo Prominence CG3145.)

Both are far better than the Sony.

Steve

Sebastian Plamadeala
 

Thank you Steve!

Interesting that Eizo came into play. I know they are exceptional monitors, i use 2 for onset grading, but i never pictured them as a studio mastering monitor, especially for HDR.

About the Flanders, last i heard about them, is that the panel wares out fast, about 1-1,5 years, and needs to be changed to keep  the same color gamut output. (i am aware of recalibration one every 3-6 months).

Thanks!

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Steve Shaw <steve@...> wrote:
I would suggest the FSI XM310K.
(Or potentially the Eizo Prominence CG3145.)

Both are far better than the Sony.

Steve

Geoff Boyle
 

CML rules are very simple, no “I heard it on the net” or “a friend of mine”

 

Verifiable facts only.

 

Details, data, real information not gossip.

 

Next it’ll be “I heard that Sebastian…” and whatever that is going to be you’ll want it to verifiable and accurate.

 

 

Cheers

 

Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS

Cinematographer

Netherlands

www.gboyle.co.uk

 

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Sebastian Plamadeala

About the Flanders, last i heard about them, is that the panel wares out fast, about 1-1,5 years, and needs to be changed to keep  the same color gamut output. (i am aware of recalibration one every 3-6 months).

 

 

Sebastian Plamadeala
 

Thank you Geoff, i will retain from such comments.

Best,
Sebastian


On Wednesday, May 23, 2018, Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:

CML rules are very simple, no “I heard it on the net” or “a friend of mine”

 

Verifiable facts only.

 

Details, data, real information not gossip.

 

Next it’ll be “I heard that Sebastian…” and whatever that is going to be you’ll want it to verifiable and accurate.

 

 

Cheers

 

Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS

Cinematographer

Netherlands

www.gboyle.co.uk

 

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Sebastian Plamadeala

About the Flanders, last i heard about them, is that the panel wares out fast, about 1-1,5 years, and needs to be changed to keep  the same color gamut output. (i am aware of recalibration one every 3-6 months).

 

 

Dado Valentic
 

There is a 65'' 4K HDR OLED screen by Panasonic with model number TX-65EZ952B that you will find inside every major color grading suite in LA. We all have Sony BVM X-300 and keep it as it is the reference and as it really keeps its value but a monitor we all look at is the Panasonic.

Disclosure: I have been working with Panasonic on the development of this screen and they are using my work on their promotional materials

Dado Valentic
Colour Scientist
London/LA




Ted Langdell
 

Also at NAB:
Boland 4K55QD-HDR : 55″ 4K Pro HDR


I hope this is helpful. 

Disclosure: I'm an authorized Boland reseller.  

Ted

Ted Langdell
flashscan8.us  Moving Image Tools and Technology

On May 22, 2018, at 11:35 AM, tipul01@... wrote:

hello,

i have been trying to keep up to date with hdr monitoring  for mastering/grading.

seeing how the bvm x300 is three years old already, im thinking in terms of new aquisitions if its wise for considering a buy this year, or should i wait for new apparitions. 

Seeinng how nab showd off tvlogic and flanders, these brands are not so the "go-to" standard for HDR mastering monitors.

any thoughts?

thank you,
sebastian

Bob Kertesz
 

When I last looked at the Panasonic OLED about a year ago, it did not support any form of HDR.

Has that changed?

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *

On 5/23/2018 4:07 AM, Dado Valentic wrote:
There is a 65'' 4K HDR OLED screen by Panasonic with model number TX-65EZ952B that you will find inside every major color grading suite in LA. We all have Sony BVM X-300 and keep it as it is the reference and as it really keeps its value but a monitor we all look at is the Panasonic.

Disclosure: I have been working with Panasonic on the development of this screen and they are using my work on their promotional materials

Dado Valentic
Colour Scientist
London/LA

fmaurin.us
 

Why is this Pana TV only available in EU and CA?

François Maurin
Editor
Los Angeles, CA

Bob Kertesz
 

The Panasonic OLED now supports HLG and HDR10, according to the current specs, but not DolbyVision HDR.

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *

On 5/23/2018 9:44 AM, Bob Kertesz wrote:
When I last looked at the Panasonic OLED about a year ago, it did not support any form of HDR.

Has that changed?

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *

On 5/23/2018 4:07 AM, Dado Valentic wrote:
There is a 65'' 4K HDR OLED screen by Panasonic with model number TX-65EZ952B that you will find inside every major color grading suite in LA. We all have Sony BVM X-300 and keep it as it is the reference and as it really keeps its value but a monitor we all look at is the Panasonic.

Disclosure: I have been working with Panasonic on the development of this screen and they are using my work on their promotional materials

Dado Valentic
Colour Scientist
London/LA


Steve Shaw
 

The Panasonic uses the LG WOLED screen, and cannot accurately do any form of HDR - regardless what the marketing hype says.

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/error.html#hdr_volume
(You may need to click on the 'HDR Volumetric Accuracy' button, depending on your browser.)

And also see: https://www.lightillusion.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=8&topic=485#msg2882

There is no way such displays should ever be attempted to be used for HDR, and even SDR is suspect...

And the Eizo is a new model that uses a 'per-pixel' backlight, and is not at all like their other models.
As fro FSI, their displays do not need a any more calibration, or re-calibration, compared to any other displays.

As it happens Sony displays cannot be user re-calibrated, as Sony do not allow user access to anything more that the grey scale.
All our customers with Sony display use external LUT boxes to enable accurate calibration.
(Sony factory calibration tends to favour 'orange'.)

The Boland also has no 3D LUT calibration internally (just 1D LUT and 3x3 matrix), so again requires an external LUT.
(We have spoken with Boland, as they are looking to add 3D LUT capability.)

Steve
Light Illusion

Sebastian Plamadeala
 

Very enlightening Steve, thank you.

Eizo seems a very interesting choice, as well as the FSI. Din not know about the lut box needed for the Sony. 

I see that Eizo does not have an SDI input, so i believe one would need something as an SDI to HDMI conversion, like AJA Hi5-4K-Plus or  similar to get the HDR metadata into the display. Wondering how the Dolby Vision dynamic metadata would be translated to that hdmi input. If one would put an Omnitek Ultra XR or Aja/Colorfront HDR Analyser into the chain, would the signal quality hold up?

Thank you!

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Steve Shaw <steve@...> wrote:
The Panasonic uses the LG WOLED screen, and cannot accurately do any form of HDR - regardless what the marketing hype says.

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/error.html#hdr_volume
(You may need to click on the 'HDR Volumetric Accuracy' button, depending on your browser.)

And also see: https://www.lightillusion.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=8&topic=485#msg2882

There is no way such displays should ever be attempted to be used for HDR, and even SDR is suspect...

And the Eizo is a new model that uses a 'per-pixel' backlight, and is not at all like their other models.
As fro FSI, their displays do not need a any more calibration, or re-calibration, compared to any other displays.

As it happens Sony displays cannot be user re-calibrated, as Sony do not allow user access to anything more that the grey scale.
All our customers with Sony display use external LUT boxes to enable accurate calibration.
(Sony factory calibration tends to favour 'orange'.)

The Boland also has no 3D LUT calibration internally (just 1D LUT and 3x3 matrix), so again requires an external LUT.
(We have spoken with Boland, as they are looking to add 3D LUT capability.)

Steve
Light Illusion

George
 

Any lower end priced HDR professional grading monitors?

Around or under $3,000-$5,000?

Mike

Michael Most
 

On May 27, 2018, at 9:58 AM, George via Cml.News <medavoym=yahoo.com@...> wrote:

Any lower end priced HDR professional grading monitors?

Around or under $3,000-$5,000?

No. In fact, the only “HDR professional grading monitors” that currently exist that I know of are the Sony X300 and the Dolby Pulsar. That said, HDR is in its infancy. If you want a monitor in that price range that can display what we’re currently calling “HDR”, you are looking at consumer monitors, like the LG OLEDs.

Mike Most
On Location Services Director
Technicolor 
Los Angeles, CA.

Ido Karilla
 

Flanders scientific has some nice solutions as well. 


On 27 May 2018, at 22:25, Michael Most <mdmost@...> wrote:

On May 27, 2018, at 9:58 AM, George via Cml.News <medavoym=yahoo.com@...> wrote:

Any lower end priced HDR professional grading monitors?

Around or under $3,000-$5,000?

No. In fact, the only “HDR professional grading monitors” that currently exist that I know of are the Sony X300 and the Dolby Pulsar. That said, HDR is in its infancy. If you want a monitor in that price range that can display what we’re currently calling “HDR”, you are looking at consumer monitors, like the LG OLEDs.

Mike Most
On Location Services Director
Technicolor 
Los Angeles, CA.

Jacques Mersereau
 

<<Any lower end priced HDR professional grading monitors?
Around or under $3,000-$5,000>>

I attended NAB 2018 - and from what I was told and shown there, for a "professional grading" 4K HDR monitor you are looking to add a zero to those prices you posted.
Sure, much depends on size and features, but . . .
Please someone correct me if I have this wrong, but the Sony BVM is the top dog and costs around $50K. 
A lessor version - a 'reference' monitor is I believe around $30K.
The Canon series starts at like $17 and goes past $25K.  
We are looking at a Flanders-Scientific - which I would NOT characterize as a grading quality display = $13-$17K,
though on its website, Flanders has one at $45K as the 'anticipated' price. I would hope it is grading quality.

For your price range look to Atomos Sumo so you can at least get something that can show you the HDR image, 
but I do not think it attains anywhere near the level of 'professional grading.'

HTH and as always, I could be wrong ;-)




^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jacques Mersereau
The Duderstadt Center 
University of Michigan
Video Studio Managing Producer
2281 Bonisteel Blvd.
Ann Arbor, MI  48109
< jacmer@...>

Geoff Boyle
 

I think that this is as good as you’re going to get in your price range.

 

http://www.eizoglobal.com/products/coloredge/cg318-4k/index.html

 

It only gets to 350 nit but in reality that’s what home TV’s are showing.

 

It’s what is used for the CML evaluations, yes I’d love a FSI or a Dolby or a Sony X300 but reality bites 😊

 

The CX3145 looks pretty good but that’s in the price range we can’t contemplate.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS

Cinematographer

Netherlands

www.gboyle.co.uk

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of George via Cml.News
Sent: 27 May 2018 18:59
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] HDR mastering monitorsing dering for a buy this year, or

 

Any lower end priced HDR professional grading monitors?

 

Around or under $3,000-$5,000?

 

Mike

Steve Shaw
 
Edited

The Eizo Prominance CG3145 is certified for HDR mastering, and suffers none of the issue the Sony X300 has, as it has a 'backlight per pixel'.
The Sony suffers ABL/ASBL type power saving issues.
With a backlight per pixel, such issues just do not exist with LCD displays.

The new Flanders Scientific XM310K has the same backlight technology, but will also have professional SDI connections, etc.

We are also assisting Konvision with a new HDR display, which can do 650+ nits.
We have one in our office, but it's not yet openly available, but shows there are new options on the way.

Steve
Light Illusion

alister@...
 

On 28 May 2018, at 08:37, Steve Shaw <steve@...> wrote:

The Eizo Prominance CG3145 is certified for HDR mastering, and suffers none of the issue the Sony X300 has, as it has a 'backlight per pixel'.
The Sony has limited backlight zones, so suffers haloing, as well as ABL/ASBL type issues.


Correct me if  am wrong, but the BVM-X300 is OLED so doesn’t have a backlight as every pixel is it’s own lightsource and as a result doesn’t suffer from limited backlight zones etc. Perhaps your confusing it with the PVM-X300 which is an SDR LCD monitor.


Alister Chapman

DoP - Stereographer
UK Mobile +44 7711 152226
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www.xdcam-user.com    1.5 million hits, 100,000 visits from over 45,000 unique visitors every month!  Film and Video production techniques, reviews and news.



Steve Shaw
 

You are correct - it has ABL/Power saving issues, not haloing.
My bad!
It is other LCD displays (mainly home TVs) that have limited backlight zones.
We've been doing so many display/TV evaluations lately it can be rather difficult to keep track without referring to notes.
(I will make sure I refer to them next time!)

Steve