Topics

IBC presentation

Geoff Boyle
 

Join two of the world's top #cinematographers, Geoff Boyle, NSC FBKS and Bill Bennett, ASC at the @IBCShow #BigScreen programme to discover the latest 4K/UHD/HDR format workflows, the best in cinematography, and the latest camera testing results and opinions. Get your free ticket using code FREEB. #IBC2018

 

 

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

Mark Chiolis
 

Geoff and Bill will be presenting at the IBC Big Screen on Tuesday September 17th from 1445 - 1545.  Geoff will be showcasing his latest camera test material in 4K/HDR and talking about the results.  Bill will be showcasing some of his latest 4K/HDR material and talking about the workflows used to capture and process it.  Anyone with an IBC Exhibits pass is welcome to the event and IBC has been kind enough to extend the time to register for a free exhibits pass to CML members, but please register quickly to secure your pass.  

Mark Chiolis
Director of Business Development / Mobile TV Group
Co-Chair of IBC Big Screen Cinematographers Panel

Ulf Soderqvist
 

Is this by any chance streaming online?

Thanks,

Ulf Soderqvist
DP LA


On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 12:09 AM Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:

Join two of the world's top #cinematographers, Geoff Boyle, NSC FBKS and Bill Bennett, ASC at the @IBCShow #BigScreen programme to discover the latest 4K/UHD/HDR format workflows, the best in cinematography, and the latest camera testing results and opinions. Get your free ticket using code FREEB. #IBC2018

Geoff Boyle
 

I believe that it will be recorded to stream later.

 

Oh and the 17th is Monday…

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Ulf Soderqvist via Cml.News
Sent: 09 September 2018 21:43
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] IBC presentation

 

Is this by any chance streaming online?

 

Thanks,

 

Ulf Soderqvist

DP LA

 

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 12:09 AM Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:

Join two of the world's top #cinematographers, Geoff Boyle, NSC FBKS and Bill Bennett, ASC at the @IBCShow #BigScreen programme to discover the latest 4K/UHD/HDR format workflows, the best in cinematography, and the latest camera testing results and opinions. Get your free ticket using code FREEB. #IBC2018

Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
 

Will this presentation at IBC also include the 4K RGB Log Films Scans,  from the latest CML tests done at Bristol in July 2018?
Thanks!

Best regards,

Daniel Henríquez Ilic
Filmmaking and Technical Consulting
Film Photography
Fotoquímica Films SpA
Santiago de Chile
+56 975543323

Geoff Boyle
 

I had hoped to include them as the highlight response is incredible.

 

However it has been a sad comedy of errors that has put me off ever having anything to do with film again.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
Sent: 10 September 2018 09:55
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: [cml-raw-log-hdr] IBC presentation

 

Will this presentation at IBC also include the 4K RGB Log Films Scans,  from the latest CML tests done at Bristol in July 2018?

Thanks!

 

Best regards,

 

Daniel Henríquez Ilic

Filmmaking and Technical Consulting

Film Photography

Fotoquímica Films SpA

Santiago de Chile

+56 975543323

Matthew Clark
 

Ca you share your thoughts on that comedy of errors Geoff?  It’d be good to know about the pitfalls of that workflow and hopefully learn from them.  Of course, I’m not looking for you to name names or anything like that, just an overview of what worked and what failed and maybe why, if you can.  

Thanks.

Matthew Clark
Director/DP
Seattle, WA


On Sep 10, 2018, at 2:49 AM, Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:

I had hoped to include them as the highlight response is incredible.
 
However it has been a sad comedy of errors that has put me off ever having anything to do with film again.
 
cheers 
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076
 
 
From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
Sent: 10 September 2018 09:55
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: [cml-raw-log-hdr] IBC presentation
 
Will this presentation at IBC also include the 4K RGB Log Films Scans,  from the latest CML tests done at Bristol in July 2018?
Thanks!
 
Best regards,
 
Daniel Henríquez Ilic
Filmmaking and Technical Consulting
Film Photography
Fotoquímica Films SpA
Santiago de Chile 
+56 975543323

Geoff Boyle
 

I'm sorry I can't without airing a list of woes and the people connected.

Suffice to say...

Kodak, brewery, piss-up

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076
www.gboyle.co.uk


On Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 04:00 Matthew Clark via Cml.News, <str8films1=me.com@...> wrote:
Ca you share your thoughts on that comedy of errors Geoff?  It’d be good to know about the pitfalls of that workflow and hopefully learn from them.  Of course, I’m not looking for you to name names or anything like that, just an overview of what worked and what failed and maybe why, if you can.  

Thanks.

Matthew Clark
Director/DP
Seattle, WA


On Sep 10, 2018, at 2:49 AM, Geoff Boyle <geoff.cml@...> wrote:

I had hoped to include them as the highlight response is incredible.
 
However it has been a sad comedy of errors that has put me off ever having anything to do with film again.
 
cheers 
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076
 
 
From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
Sent: 10 September 2018 09:55
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: [cml-raw-log-hdr] IBC presentation
 
Will this presentation at IBC also include the 4K RGB Log Films Scans,  from the latest CML tests done at Bristol in July 2018?
Thanks!
 
Best regards,
 
Daniel Henríquez Ilic
Filmmaking and Technical Consulting
Film Photography
Fotoquímica Films SpA
Santiago de Chile 
+56 975543323


Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
 

Hi Geoff,

Disclaimer: I, in behalf of my company Fotoquímica Films, arranged a meeting at CineGear Los Ángeles between Mr. Boyle and Eastman Kodak to try to get a sponsorship from Kodak for the CML test of July 2018 in Bristol. During the meeting Kodak approved to support this test by providing free of charge one 400 feet roll of 35mm color negative, the normal ECN-2 processing and the 4K scan.

Geoff : Did you get for free,  the film stock and the 4k scan , from Kodak? I don't think it is nice  to treat  Kodak as you did in your recent email since  they have supported CML in the latest test.  

As far  as I know, per  your previous emails, the footage was developed and scanned.

Your concern was about the bit depth of the film scans done on the Scanity, right? 

Even  at 10-bit Log it is worth watching. I would think they scanned at 16-bit flat/Log as agreed in the meeting. Are you sure the issue is not on your end? 

As already mentionned, when using an ADX16toACES on Resolve software,  gain needs to adjusted to 0.25 value to get in the ballpark. This is what I do when I grade 16-bits film scan using ACES color science.

Thank you very much to everyone involved in the film branch of this latest CML test. I just hope the results will be published, so that we have a chance to compare the response of color negative film to any digital camera. 

Daniel Henríquez Ilic
Director of Post-Production
Fotoquímica Films
Santiago de Chile



Geoff Boyle
 

Daniel,

 

Yes you did make the introductions and that all went well, however, the confusion over scanning and transferring the material, the unbelievably awful download which took 4 days! The confusion over the SSD I arranged for them the lack of communication above everything else caused my comments.

 

It started well and rapidly went downhill.

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
Sent: 11 September 2018 18:12
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: [cml-raw-log-hdr] IBC presentation

 

Hi Geoff,

 

Disclaimer: I, in behalf of my company Fotoquímica Films, arranged a meeting at CineGear Los Ángeles between Mr. Boyle and Eastman Kodak to try to get a sponsorship from Kodak for the CML test of July 2018 in Bristol. During the meeting Kodak approved to support this test by providing free of charge one 400 feet roll of 35mm color negative, the normal ECN-2 processing and the 4K scan.

 

Geoff : Did you get for free,  the film stock and the 4k scan , from Kodak? I don't think it is nice  to treat  Kodak as you did in your recent email since  they have supported CML in the latest test.  

 

As far  as I know, per  your previous emails, the footage was developed and scanned.

 

Your concern was about the bit depth of the film scans done on the Scanity, right? 

 

Even  at 10-bit Log it is worth watching. I would think they scanned at 16-bit flat/Log as agreed in the meeting. Are you sure the issue is not on your end? 

 

As already mentionned, when using an ADX16toACES on Resolve software,  gain needs to adjusted to 0.25 value to get in the ballpark. This is what I do when I grade 16-bits film scan using ACES color science.

 

Thank you very much to everyone involved in the film branch of this latest CML test. I just hope the results will be published, so that we have a chance to compare the response of color negative film to any digital camera. 

 

Daniel Henríquez Ilic

Director of Post-Production

Fotoquímica Films

Santiago de Chile

 

 

 

Jeff Kreines
 

“During the meeting Kodak approved to support this test by providing free of charge one 400 feet roll of 35mm color negative, the normal ECN-2 processing and the 4K scan.”

Generous, ain’t they? And foolish. Tests like this remind people of the beauty of film.

Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
jeff@...
kinetta.com

Sent from iPhone.

On Sep 11, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Daniel Henríquez-Ilic <dhisur@...> wrote:

During the meeting Kodak approved to support this test by providing free of charge one 400 feet roll of 35mm color negative, the normal ECN-2 processing and the 4K scan.

Bob Kertesz
 

On 9/12/2018 12:12 AM, Jeff Kreines wrote:

“During the meeting Kodak approved to support this test by providing free of charge one 400 feet roll of 35mm color negative, the normal ECN-2 processing and the 4K scan.”

Generous, ain’t they? And foolish. Tests like this remind people of the beauty of film.


When you've been the big dog lording over an industry for a century, you develop an internal zeitgeist that presupposes you can do no wrong, and as happens in many instances, it becomes a self-reinforcing hubris laden echo chamber.

It's one of the main reasons they failed to comprehend the danger posed to their business with the ascent of digital acquisition - it seems they looked on it as just another form of video and nothing to worry about, that the developments in digital would proceed at the same glacier-like pace that Kodak had employed for many decades.

That it took Geoff four days to download the scan file from their server pretty much says it all.

Beautiful or not, you have to be able to do actual work and deliver product or it's useless.

The classic mistake of not knowing what business you are in. They thought they were in the film business, when in fact they were in the delivery of images business.

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *


Chris MacKarell
 

Bob K. referring to Kodak:

>self-reinforcing hubris laden echo chamber.

and:

>They thought they were in the film business, when in fact they were in the delivery of images business

The story of Kodak's self-image as arguably that of a chemical company, not as an image delivery company in a wider sense, is even more poignant considering their research laid so much of the groundwork for today's digital cinematography, leaving space for others to build on their innovations. Dr Bryce Bayer worked for them his whole career, patenting the bayer filter in 1976.

Chris MacKarell
Director of Workflow
ARRI Rental NJ


On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 2:04 PM Bob Kertesz <bob@...> wrote:
On 9/12/2018 12:12 AM, Jeff Kreines wrote:

“During the meeting Kodak approved to support this test by providing free of charge one 400 feet roll of 35mm color negative, the normal ECN-2 processing and the 4K scan.”

Generous, ain’t they? And foolish. Tests like this remind people of the beauty of film.


When you've been the big dog lording over an industry for a century, you develop an internal zeitgeist that presupposes you can do no wrong, and as happens in many instances, it becomes a self-reinforcing hubris laden echo chamber.

It's one of the main reasons they failed to comprehend the danger posed to their business with the ascent of digital acquisition - it seems they looked on it as just another form of video and nothing to worry about, that the developments in digital would proceed at the same glacier-like pace that Kodak had employed for many decades.

That it took Geoff four days to download the scan file from their server pretty much says it all.

Beautiful or not, you have to be able to do actual work and deliver product or it's useless.

The classic mistake of not knowing what business you are in. They thought they were in the film business, when in fact they were in the delivery of images business.

-Bob

Bob Kertesz
BlueScreen LLC
Hollywood, California

DIT, Video Controller, and live compositor extraordinaire.

High quality images for more than four decades - whether you've wanted them or not.©

* * * * * * * * * *


Jeff Kreines
 

On Sep 12, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Bob Kertesz <bob@...> wrote:

They thought they were in the film business, when in fact they were in the delivery of images business.
Make that the “very slow delivery of images business.”

Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
jeff@...
kinetta.com
.
Sent from iPhone

Geoff Boyle
 

The download was one a system that here is easily capable of 400mbps, the download was at 10mbps…

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Jeff Kreines
Sent: 13 September 2018 05:15
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] IBC presentation

 

On Sep 12, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Bob Kertesz <bob@...> wrote:

They thought they were in the film business, when in fact they were in the delivery of images business.

Make that the “very slow delivery of images business.”

Jeff Kreines
Kinetta
jeff@...
kinetta.com
.
Sent from iPhone

Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
 

Geoff, as comparison information, to get DPX film scans shipped from Burbank to Santiago de Chile takes usually there days vía courier. This is a standard procedure when working with large uncompressed film scans... so don't know why you ended into the internet delivery path. Did you asked for that service or was it the Lab decision? A courier from London to Holland would have been very quick and affordable.

Anyway this doesn't really matter, as this was only a test not a real production  with tight deadline. We are interested in the actual film scans, i.e how they compare with the digital files of the digital cameras. So things as long the files (film scans) were delivered, I would just hope you will comply with the agreement of publishing the results.  Of course I have no reason to think you will not publish the results.

Otherwise I prefer to refund to Eastman Kodak the expenses of one 400 feet raw stock, processing and 4K scan, as we are a serious company, not joking with Eastman Kodak, and our efforts to provide a support from Kodak for this CML test were only done with the certainty of an unbiased, professional and fair test, that is the basis of my concept of CML.  

Best regards,
Daniel Henríquez Ilic
Filmmaker
Director of Post-Production
Santiago de Chile

Geoff Boyle
 

I tried sending them a SSD to transfer the files to which I would have shipped to the Netherlands.

 

That caused all kinds of confusion, non-communication and responses to emails took weeks, I mean that quite accurately, weeks!

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Daniel Henríquez-Ilic
Sent: 13 September 2018 05:57
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: [cml-raw-log-hdr] IBC presentation

 

Geoff, as comparison information, to get DPX film scans shipped from Burbank to Santiago de Chile takes usually there days vía courier. This is a standard procedure when working with large uncompressed film scans... so don't know why you ended into the internet delivery path. Did you asked for that service or was it the Lab decision? A courier from London to Holland would have been very quick and affordable.

 

Anyway this doesn't really matter, as this was only a test not a real production  with tight deadline. We are interested in the actual film scans, i.e how they compare with the digital files of the digital cameras. So things as long the files (film scans) were delivered, I would just hope you will comply with the agreement of publishing the results.  Of course I have no reason to think you will not publish the results.

 

Otherwise I prefer to refund to Eastman Kodak the expenses of one 400 feet raw stock, processing and 4K scan, as we are a serious company, not joking with Eastman Kodak, and our efforts to provide a support from Kodak for this CML test were only done with the certainty of an unbiased, professional and fair test, that is the basis of my concept of CML.  

 

Best regards,

Daniel Henríquez Ilic

Filmmaker

Director of Post-Production

Santiago de Chile

Mark Chiolis
 

Just a reminder that if you're at the #IBC2018 show on Monday 17, September (today), don't miss Geoff Boyle, NSC FBKS and Bill Bennett, ASC on the #cinematographers presentations at the #bigscreen auditorium from 1445 - 1545. Geoff will be showing his latest camera tests in 4K/HDR and talking about the results, as well as some of his challenges creating the DCP's for today's presentation. Bill will be screening his latest 4K/HDR projects and reviewing the workflow and the challenges with 4K and HDR today.  This event at The Big Screen auditorium is open to all IBC attendees with an exhibits pass or above.  Since Geoff had some “challenges” creating  the DCP’s for this how will those workflow lessons influence his presentation and discussion and what questions will that bring from the audience on what he would have done differently! 

 

Mark Chiolis

Director of Business Development / Mobile TV Group

Producer / Co-Chair of this Presentation

 

Geoff Boyle
 

And I have just come from a check projection of the version we finished last night.
Sorry Colorfront for making you late for dinner!
Very happy now.
I'm pretty sure that after this there may be some unhappiness amongst manufacturers.

Geoff
In the press room at IBC starting to relax



On Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 09:19 Mark Chiolis, <mchiolis@...> wrote:

Just a reminder that if you're at the #IBC2018 show on Monday 17, September (today), don't miss Geoff Boyle, NSC FBKS and Bill Bennett, ASC on the #cinematographers presentations at the #bigscreen auditorium from 1445 - 1545. Geoff will be showing his latest camera tests in 4K/HDR and talking about the results, as well as some of his challenges creating the DCP's for today's presentation. Bill will be screening his latest 4K/HDR projects and reviewing the workflow and the challenges with 4K and HDR today.  This event at The Big Screen auditorium is open to all IBC attendees with an exhibits pass or above.  Since Geoff had some “challenges” creating  the DCP’s for this how will those workflow lessons influence his presentation and discussion and what questions will that bring from the audience on what he would have done differently! 

 

Mark Chiolis

Director of Business Development / Mobile TV Group

Producer / Co-Chair of this Presentation

 

axel.mertes
 

Damn,

could not attend as I am leaving today. Any chance someone will do a recording of this and share among CML users?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Best regards,

Axel Mertes

Workflow, IT, Research and Development
Geschäftsführer/CTO/Founder
Tel: +49 69 978837-20
eMail: Axel.Mertes@...

Magna Mana Production
Bildbearbeitung GmbH
Jakob-Latscha-Straße 3
60314 Frankfurt am Main
Germany
Tel: +49 69 978837-0
Fax: +49 69 978837-34
eMail: Info@...
Web: http://www.MagnaMana.com/

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Am 17.09.2018 um 09:23 schrieb Geoff Boyle:

And I have just come from a check projection of the version we finished last night.
Sorry Colorfront for making you late for dinner!
Very happy now.
I'm pretty sure that after this there may be some unhappiness amongst manufacturers.

Geoff
In the press room at IBC starting to relax



On Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 09:19 Mark Chiolis, <mchiolis@...> wrote:

Just a reminder that if you're at the #IBC2018 show on Monday 17, September (today), don't miss Geoff Boyle, NSC FBKS and Bill Bennett, ASC on the #cinematographers presentations at the #bigscreen auditorium from 1445 - 1545. Geoff will be showing his latest camera tests in 4K/HDR and talking about the results, as well as some of his challenges creating the DCP's for today's presentation. Bill will be screening his latest 4K/HDR projects and reviewing the workflow and the challenges with 4K and HDR today.  This event at The Big Screen auditorium is open to all IBC attendees with an exhibits pass or above.  Since Geoff had some “challenges” creating  the DCP’s for this how will those workflow lessons influence his presentation and discussion and what questions will that bring from the audience on what he would have done differently! 

 

Mark Chiolis

Director of Business Development / Mobile TV Group

Producer / Co-Chair of this Presentation