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The Results: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2...


Colin Elves
 


Skin Tone Shootout Results!



Here are the cameras:



Camera A: Panasonic GH5s
Camera B: Canon C200
Camera C: Arri Amira
Camera D: Panasonic EVA1
Camera E: Kinefinity Terra 4K
Camera F: Red Raven
Camera G: Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1
Camera H: Sony FS7



You can view them unredacted here: https://vimeo.com/336098148/d23bfa2562



Here’s the rankings:

1. Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 71 votes
2. Arri Amira: 35 votes
3. Kinefinity Terra 4K: 16 votes
4. Panasonic EVA1: 11 votes
5. Canon C200: 4 votes
6. Red Raven: 3 votes
7. GH5s: 1 vote
8. Sony FS7: 0 votes



Blackmagic Ursa mini pro is the clear winner, with twice as many votes as the next one *and* it came top in all but one poll. 



Second is the Amira - again this is reasonable consistent it picked up votes in all but one poll, came first in one (which really boosted its performance) and second in two and a couple of third places.



Third is the Kinefinity Terra 4K. Again, consistently came in 2nd or 3rd - and picked up votes in every poll (only the UMP managed this as well)



Fourth is the EVA1 - Which was helped greatly by a strong showing on CML. And picked up a couple more votes in other places.

C200, Red Raven, GH5s and Sony FS7 just didn’t get a lot of love anywhere.

Breakdowns based upon each group are as follows:

CML (Cinematography Mailing list - cml.news:



Panasonic GH5s: 1 vote
Canon C200: 1 vote
Arri Amira: 3 votes
Panasonic EVA1: 8 votes
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 4 votes
Red Raven: 0 votes
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 13 votes
Sony FS7: 0 votes

Video Village:

Panasonic GH5s: 0 votes
Canon C200: 1 vote
Arri Amira: 0 votes
Panasonic EVA1: 0 votes
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 3 votes
Red Raven: 0 votes
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 14 votes
Sony FS7: 0 votes

The Cinematographers on Facebook

Panasonic GH5s: 1 vote
Canon C200: 1 vote
Arri Amira: 3 votes
Panasonic EVA1: 3 votes
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 4 votes
Red Raven: 1 vote
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 16 votes
Sony FS7: 0 votes

The

Cinematographer’s Insight (group on Facebook)

Panasonic GH5s: 0 vote
Canon C200: 1 vote
Arri Amira: 5 votes
Panasonic EVA1: 0 votes
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 3 votes
Red Raven: 1 vote
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 10 votes
Sony FS7: 0 votes



Panasonic AU-EVA1 (group on Facebook)



Panasonic GH5s: 0 votes
Canon C200: 0 votes
Arri Amira: 22 votes
Panasonic EVA1: 1 vote
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 1 votes
Red Raven: 1 vote
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 15 votes
Sony FS7: 0 votes

Vimeo: 

Panasonic GH5s: 0 votes
Canon C200: 0 votes
Arri Amira: 2 votes
Panasonic EVA1: 0 vote
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 1 votes
Red Raven: 0 vote
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 3 votes
Sony FS7: 0 votes




Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin



Noel Sterrett
 

On 5/16/19 5:36 AM, Colin Elves wrote:
Blackmagic Ursa mini pro is the clear winner.
Some of the cameras produced a narrower key than others (as I wanted to retain the green on the Xrite chart).

Actually, I can't see any green at all on the Xrite chart for the winner, G.


Noel Sterrett
Admit One Pictures



Fran Tormo
 

Jajajajajjaja!! 0 points!!!
Si no se fuera a negro sin avisar sería mi chica perfecta!

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 16 may 2019, a las 14:30, Noel Sterrett <noel@...> escribió:

On 5/16/19 5:36 AM, Colin Elves wrote:
Blackmagic Ursa mini pro is the clear winner.
Some of the cameras produced a narrower key than others (as I wanted to retain the green on the Xrite chart).

Actually, I can't see any green at all on the Xrite chart for the winner, G.


Noel Sterrett
Admit One Pictures



John Tarver
 

Very interesting test.  Despite some issues (fixed pattern noise above ISO 800) I really like the look of the BM Ursa Pro.  Have intercut with Alexa for a few shots and no one was the wiser.  
 
It would be great to do a similar test / blind poll for LED light sources for skin tone with a tungsten source as the control.  In my humble opinion LED sources are a bigger issue with skin tones these days than camera sensors.  

Thanks for your hard work on this Colin!  Really informative.

Cheers,
John Tarver, csc
DP in Toronto


Colin Elves
 

Please don’t use this to judge how well they Key. It was all done quickly using the qualifier in Resolve. 

The biggest factor that effected the narrowness of the key was noise on the screen - which is much more evident in the raw cameras - and on the EVA1 the green was exposed about a stop under.

The FS7 seemed to perform well, but you can see how much NR is going on. 

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin

On 16 May 2019, at 16:06, Fran Tormo <francisco.tormo@...> wrote:

Jajajajajjaja!! 0 points!!!
Si no se fuera a negro sin avisar sería mi chica perfecta!

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 16 may 2019, a las 14:30, Noel Sterrett <noel@...> escribió:

On 5/16/19 5:36 AM, Colin Elves wrote:
Blackmagic Ursa mini pro is the clear winner.
Some of the cameras produced a narrower key than others (as I wanted to retain the green on the Xrite chart).

Actually, I can't see any green at all on the Xrite chart for the winner, G.


Noel Sterrett
Admit One Pictures


Leonard Levy
 

What EI was the FS 7 exposed at and what LUT did you use for it .
Leonard Levy, DP
San Rafael Ca


Colin Elves
 

Native ISO: 2000. Used the Slog3 Sgamutcine IDT (it whatever it’s called) in ACES.

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin.

On 16 May 2019, at 18:00, Leonard Levy <nsll@...> wrote:

What EI was the FS 7 exposed at and what LUT did you use for it .
Leonard Levy, DP
San Rafael Ca
_._,_._,_




Fahnon
 

Wow apparently I love Panasonic color.  I’ve always loved Blackmagic color so no surprise there, but I’m pretty surprised I didn’t respond to either Canon or RED considering how much I love them in general and how proven they both are. 



On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 05:36 Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:

Skin Tone Shootout Results!

Here are the cameras:

Camera A: Panasonic GH5s
Camera B: Canon C200
Camera C: Arri AmiraCamera D: Panasonic EVA1
Camera E: Kinefinity Terra 4K
Camera F: Red Raven
Camera G: Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1Camera H: Sony FS7

You can view them unredacted here: https://vimeo.com/336098148/d23bfa2562

Here’s the rankings:1. Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 71 votes
2. Arri Amira: 35 votes
3. Kinefinity Terra 4K: 16 votes
4. Panasonic EVA1: 11 votes
5. Canon C200: 4 votes6. Red Raven: 3 votes7. GH5s: 1 vote
8. Sony FS7: 0 votes

Blackmagic Ursa mini pro is the clear winner, with twice as many votes as the next one *and* it came top in all but one poll.

Second is the Amira - again this is reasonable consistent it picked up votes in all but one poll, came first in one (which really boosted its performance) and second in two and a couple of third places.

Third is the Kinefinity Terra 4K. Again, consistently came in 2nd or 3rd - and picked up votes in every poll (only the UMP managed this as well)

Fourth is the EVA1 - Which was helped greatly by a strong showing on CML. And picked up a couple more votes in other places.

C200, Red Raven, GH5s and Sony FS7 just didn’t get a lot of love anywhere.

Breakdowns based upon each group are as follows:

CML (Cinematography Mailing list - cml.news:

Panasonic GH5s: 1 vote
Canon C200: 1 vote
Arri Amira: 3 votesPanasonic EVA1: 8 votes
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 4 votes
Red Raven: 0 votes
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 13 votesSony FS7: 0 votes

Video Village:
Panasonic GH5s: 0 votes
Canon C200: 1 vote
Arri Amira: 0 votesPanasonic EVA1: 0 votes
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 3 votes
Red Raven: 0 votes
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 14 votesSony FS7: 0 votes

The Cinematographers on Facebook

Panasonic GH5s: 1 vote
Canon C200: 1 vote
Arri Amira: 3 votesPanasonic EVA1: 3 votes
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 4 votes
Red Raven: 1 vote
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 16 votesSony FS7: 0 votesThe

Cinematographer’s Insight (group on Facebook)

Panasonic GH5s: 0 vote
Canon C200: 1 vote
Arri Amira: 5 votesPanasonic EVA1: 0 votes
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 3 votes
Red Raven: 1 vote
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 10 votesSony FS7: 0 votes

Panasonic AU-EVA1 (group on Facebook)

Panasonic GH5s: 0 votes
Canon C200: 0 votes
Arri Amira: 22 votesPanasonic EVA1: 1 vote
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 1 votes
Red Raven: 1 vote
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 15 votesSony FS7: 0 votesVimeo: Panasonic GH5s: 0 votes
Canon C200: 0 votes
Arri Amira: 2 votesPanasonic EVA1: 0 vote
Kinefinity Terra 4K: 1 votes
Red Raven: 0 vote
Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1: 3 votesSony FS7: 0 votes




Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin


--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Russell Lasson
 

Thanks for taking the time to do this test. Comparing cameras is certainly challenging. Originally I liked G and C the most. Just invited several people in to look at it as well and they all came to similar conclusions.

Someone pointed out that while the color on the Usra Mini Pro looks nice, the focus chart has aliasing which really stands out as bad. Does it have the same errors on the original footage too? I guess you need to pay tens of thousands more for the Amira to get rid of it ;)

Thanks again,

Russ Lasson
Senior Colorist
Cosmic Pictures


Geoff Boyle
 

You just need to get the Rawlight OLPF for the UMP to get rid of the aliasing.

 

I tested this and found negligible loss of resolution and a 10 shift to green,

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Russell Lasson
Sent: 16 May 2019 23:54
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] The Results: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2...

 

Thanks for taking the time to do this test. Comparing cameras is certainly challenging. Originally I liked G and C the most. Just invited several people in to look at it as well and they all came to similar conclusions.

Someone pointed out that while the color on the Usra Mini Pro looks nice, the focus chart has aliasing which really stands out as bad. Does it have the same errors on the original footage too? I guess you need to pay tens of thousands more for the Amira to get rid of it ;)

Thanks again,

Russ Lasson
Senior Colorist
Cosmic Pictures


Fahnon
 

Late on this response, but the big downside to the aftermarket olpf for the Ursa Mini is that it will void the warranty and BMD will not service the camera.  They’ve confirmed this on their official forum here:


On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 01:40 Geoff Boyle <geoff@...> wrote:

You just need to get the Rawlight OLPF for the UMP to get rid of the aliasing.

 

I tested this and found negligible loss of resolution and a 10 shift to green,

 

cheers
Geoff Boyle NSC FBKS
EU based cinematographer
+31 637155076

www.gboyle.nl

www.cinematography.net

 

 

From: cml-raw-log-hdr@... <cml-raw-log-hdr@...> On Behalf Of Russell Lasson
Sent: 16 May 2019 23:54
To: cml-raw-log-hdr@...
Subject: Re: [cml-raw-log-hdr] The Results: Budget Camera Skin Tone shoot out take 2...

 

Thanks for taking the time to do this test. Comparing cameras is certainly challenging. Originally I liked G and C the most. Just invited several people in to look at it as well and they all came to similar conclusions.

Someone pointed out that while the color on the Usra Mini Pro looks nice, the focus chart has aliasing which really stands out as bad. Does it have the same errors on the original footage too? I guess you need to pay tens of thousands more for the Amira to get rid of it ;)

Thanks again,

Russ Lasson
Senior Colorist
Cosmic Pictures

--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Daniel Rozsnyó
 


On 05/19/2019 05:40 PM, Fahnon wrote:
Late on this response, but the big downside to the aftermarket olpf for the Ursa Mini is that it will void the warranty and BMD will not service the camera.  They’ve confirmed this on their official forum here:


I suspect that this is just the usual incompetence on the BMD's side.

I have here an unlucky 4K6 URSA, that has somehow forgot its serial number and sensor calibration (either the EEPROM memory failed or its connections, or just the checksum is incorrect due to a flipped bit). The excuse to not service this camera from BMD was:

    We are unable to read the serial number and our tools can not deal with that.

Seeing such answer, one should assume there is no real service. Its either a replace if fails within warranty, or your gear belongs to trash.
Bigger the company, less care they provide.


Ing. Daniel Rozsnyo
camera developer
Prague, Czech Republic


Hans Hijmering
 

We (Rawlite) have asked Blackmagic Design about warranty and our Rawlite OLPF. 

Blackmagic states that warranty can be reasonably expected to be voided if the camera has been damaged as a result of installing the OLPF. 

Furthermore they point out that their offices are not trained to remove the Rawlite OLPF and change back to the original blue glass. Recalibration requires the original blue glass in the camera.

With other issues – if it’s reasonable to expect that the camera has not been damaged as a result of installing the Rawlite OLPF – for example if the LCD isn’t working during the warranty period, warranty is not voided. 


We (Rawlite) recommend to change back to the original glass when sending in the camera. It is obviously very important that dust should not enter the sensor chamber. Dust on the sensor could potentially interfere with a proper recalibration of the sensor.

Please note that the URSA Mini Pro G1 and G2 seem to be designed to facilitate easy switching of filters. The sensor chamber of these camera’s is protected by the ND filter wheel, that sits behind the OLPF. So the chance of dust entering the sensor chamber is less. 

The Rawlite OLPF for the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G1 is also suited for the G2 version. 

Best regards,

Hans Hijmering  

Rawlite Optoelectronics 
Groenlo
The Netherlands

 


Op 19 mei 2019, om 17:40 heeft Fahnon <fahnon@...> het volgende geschreven:

Late on this response, but the big downside to the aftermarket olpf for the Ursa Mini is that it will void the warranty and BMD will not service the camera.  They’ve confirmed this on their official forum here:



Fahnon
 

It's a tough situation because your product is clearly good (some would even say necessary).  I wish you could have your OLPF installed by BMD or order one with the OLPF pre-installed.  I'm sure you've already gone down this road...


On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 8:51 AM Hans Hijmering <hanshij@...> wrote:
We (Rawlite) have asked Blackmagic Design about warranty and our Rawlite OLPF. 

Blackmagic states that warranty can be reasonably expected to be voided if the camera has been damaged as a result of installing the OLPF. 

Furthermore they point out that their offices are not trained to remove the Rawlite OLPF and change back to the original blue glass. Recalibration requires the original blue glass in the camera.

With other issues – if it’s reasonable to expect that the camera has not been damaged as a result of installing the Rawlite OLPF – for example if the LCD isn’t working during the warranty period, warranty is not voided. 


We (Rawlite) recommend to change back to the original glass when sending in the camera. It is obviously very important that dust should not enter the sensor chamber. Dust on the sensor could potentially interfere with a proper recalibration of the sensor.

Please note that the URSA Mini Pro G1 and G2 seem to be designed to facilitate easy switching of filters. The sensor chamber of these camera’s is protected by the ND filter wheel, that sits behind the OLPF. So the chance of dust entering the sensor chamber is less. 

The Rawlite OLPF for the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G1 is also suited for the G2 version. 

Best regards,

Hans Hijmering  

Rawlite Optoelectronics 
Groenlo
The Netherlands

 


Op 19 mei 2019, om 17:40 heeft Fahnon <fahnon@...> het volgende geschreven:

Late on this response, but the big downside to the aftermarket olpf for the Ursa Mini is that it will void the warranty and BMD will not service the camera.  They’ve confirmed this on their official forum here:




--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Colin Elves
 

I don’t fully understand why BMD designed the camera without an OLPF. You guys seem to manufacturer them so cheaply it can’t have added too much to the cost. 

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin




On 22 May 2019, at 16:41, Fahnon <fahnon@...> wrote:

It's a tough situation because your product is clearly good (some would even say necessary).  I wish you could have your OLPF installed by BMD or order one with the OLPF pre-installed.  I'm sure you've already gone down this road...

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 8:51 AM Hans Hijmering <hanshij@...> wrote:
We (Rawlite) have asked Blackmagic Design about warranty and our Rawlite OLPF. 

Blackmagic states that warranty can be reasonably expected to be voided if the camera has been damaged as a result of installing the OLPF. 

Furthermore they point out that their offices are not trained to remove the Rawlite OLPF and change back to the original blue glass. Recalibration requires the original blue glass in the camera.

With other issues – if it’s reasonable to expect that the camera has not been damaged as a result of installing the Rawlite OLPF – for example if the LCD isn’t working during the warranty period, warranty is not voided. 


We (Rawlite) recommend to change back to the original glass when sending in the camera. It is obviously very important that dust should not enter the sensor chamber. Dust on the sensor could potentially interfere with a proper recalibration of the sensor.

Please note that the URSA Mini Pro G1 and G2 seem to be designed to facilitate easy switching of filters. The sensor chamber of these camera’s is protected by the ND filter wheel, that sits behind the OLPF. So the chance of dust entering the sensor chamber is less. 

The Rawlite OLPF for the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G1 is also suited for the G2 version. 

Best regards,

Hans Hijmering  

Rawlite Optoelectronics 
Groenlo
The Netherlands

 


Fahnon
 

Purely speculation on my part, but I'd bet this is similar to the ND situation.  Up until the Ursa Mini Pro G1, BMD hadn't put NDs in any cameras.  Unofficial word on the street was that they didn't have the talent in-house to implement ND as apparently that can be a challenge to do right.  Supposedly they made some hires and here we are with the last two Ursa Mini's equipped with NDs.  BMD has been getting shit for the lack of an OLPF since back in the BMCC days ('12), and they have to have been listening.   I'd bet they've taken steps to develop or source an OLPF solution for their cameras and I'd be shocked if the next flagship camera from them didn't have one.


On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 2:22 PM Colin Elves <colin@...> wrote:
I don’t fully understand why BMD designed the camera without an OLPF. You guys seem to manufacturer them so cheaply it can’t have added too much to the cost. 

Colin Elves
Director of Photography
Berlin




On 22 May 2019, at 16:41, Fahnon <fahnon@...> wrote:

It's a tough situation because your product is clearly good (some would even say necessary).  I wish you could have your OLPF installed by BMD or order one with the OLPF pre-installed.  I'm sure you've already gone down this road...

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 8:51 AM Hans Hijmering <hanshij@...> wrote:
We (Rawlite) have asked Blackmagic Design about warranty and our Rawlite OLPF. 

Blackmagic states that warranty can be reasonably expected to be voided if the camera has been damaged as a result of installing the OLPF. 

Furthermore they point out that their offices are not trained to remove the Rawlite OLPF and change back to the original blue glass. Recalibration requires the original blue glass in the camera.

With other issues – if it’s reasonable to expect that the camera has not been damaged as a result of installing the Rawlite OLPF – for example if the LCD isn’t working during the warranty period, warranty is not voided. 


We (Rawlite) recommend to change back to the original glass when sending in the camera. It is obviously very important that dust should not enter the sensor chamber. Dust on the sensor could potentially interfere with a proper recalibration of the sensor.

Please note that the URSA Mini Pro G1 and G2 seem to be designed to facilitate easy switching of filters. The sensor chamber of these camera’s is protected by the ND filter wheel, that sits behind the OLPF. So the chance of dust entering the sensor chamber is less. 

The Rawlite OLPF for the URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G1 is also suited for the G2 version. 

Best regards,

Hans Hijmering  

Rawlite Optoelectronics 
Groenlo
The Netherlands

 



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332


Ted Langdell
 


On May 19, 2019, at 8:40 AM, Fahnon <fahnon@...> wrote:

Late on this response, but the big downside to the aftermarket olpf for the Ursa Mini is that it will void the warranty and BMD will not service the camera.  They’ve confirmed this on their official forum here:



Forum says:
Jump to: Board index

Information

The requested topic does not exist.

Ted

Ted Langdell

(530) 301-2931
Dictated into and Sent from my iPad which is solely responsible for weird language you may see.


Fahnon
 

That's weird it works for me, but not for you.  Here's what they said (screengrab attached):

"The installation of third party OLPFs prohibits us from performing the work required on our end. Adding to the issue of the debris located inside and outside of the sensor chamber, this is not something we can address, even for cameras that would be in warranty with third party products installed in this nature."



On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 2:55 PM Ted Langdell <tedlangdell@...> wrote:

On May 19, 2019, at 8:40 AM, Fahnon <fahnon@...> wrote:

Late on this response, but the big downside to the aftermarket olpf for the Ursa Mini is that it will void the warranty and BMD will not service the camera.  They’ve confirmed this on their official forum here:



Forum says:
Jump to: Board index

Information

The requested topic does not exist.

Ted

Ted Langdell

(530) 301-2931
Dictated into and Sent from my iPad which is solely responsible for weird language you may see.



--
Fahnon Bennett
Filmmaker/Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
323.375.4332